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Does God make mistakes
- Thread starter Leo613
- Start date
JRMcC
Active Member
Maybe God doesn't determine our futures in advance. Hmmmm.....
Which god or gods are you talking about? Are you presuming a classical monotheist theology here? If so, which particular variation? Different theological traditions would answer this question very differently.
Leo613
Active Member
Can you give me the most logical
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
God as an entity? Abrahamic? If so, probably would be like Abram where he prayed to spare the good people in Sadaam. God did though he didnt make a mistake, more like changed his mind.
In my view (god not an entity), the spirits do their thing as so do we. We cant change their plans if they wish to help us or not. We can hope they do when we pray but that wont mean they made a mistake as if life is preset. It isnt. Things change and it goes in a cycle. So, there are no mistakes just things we are uses to being one way and when they contradict that, we think something went wrong when thats how life works. The spirits are intuned with that. So they helps us likewise.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Maybe when you pray to change God's mind it's you who already had a mind in according with what God had planned. You were never free to choose. Your choice is what God wanted. But... I don't know. It's all just speculations.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Our free will is his plan
ether-ore
Active Member
God answers prayer according to the faith of the individual (or group). God's intervention is not manifest without faith and prayer. Without those things, God leaves us to our own resources. God wants to bless His children, but because He grants us our agency, He will not interfere unless we call on Him in faith.
ether-ore
Active Member
You grossly misrepresent the facts. God did not create sin. He first gave man agency and then a choice to either obey or not. Man's choice brought sin into the world. Since we are all mortal and are prone to make mistakes, or rather, sin, in order for us to be able to return to our Father in Heaven, a penalty had to be paid for those sins. Since we could not pay that penalty ourselves, God the Son Himself paid it for us.
I wish I understood the desire or motive to want to discredit God.
I am a pantheist and I do believe in prayer too. Brahman/God does not make mistakes. Earnest prayers can melt the heart of your individual image of God and if conditions (beyond our knowledge) are right, assistance and grace can be received.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
In your belief he didn't know what would happen?
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Oops . . . did you say "FACTS" ?
There are no facts when it comes to the Abrahamic god and this mythology / cosmology
This god certainly did . . . according to His Almighty book
Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Your use of words such as "obey" "penalty" "paid for those sins" clearly defines this evil manipulative religion
Furthermore:
A lecture delivered at the meeting of the Royal Society of Medicine first published in 1951 by Routledge and Kegan Paul Limited Broadway House, 68-74 Carter Lane, London, B.C.4 - Printed in Great Britain by Butler and Tanner Limited Frome and London
The Original Sin as the tradition of the Fall from the Garden of Eden' is an archetypal structure embedded deep within our unconsciousness. The Original Sin is Man's guilt of being carnivorous and lycanthropic.
We are all descended from males of the carnivorous lycanthropic variety, a mutation evolved under the pressure of hunger caused by the climatic change at the end of the pluvial period, which induced indiscriminate, even cannibalistic predatory aggression, culminating in the rape and sometimes even in the devouring of the females of the original peaceful fruit-eating bon sauvage remaining in the primeval virgin forests.
It was the 'clothes of skin' and the 'aprons of fig-leaves', that produced the nakedness of man, and not the other way round, the urge to cover man's nudity that led to the invention of clothing. It is obvious that neither man nor woman could be 'ashamed' (Gen. ii. 25) or 'afraid because they were naked' (Gen. iii. 10 f.) before they had donned their animal's pelt or hunters' 'apron of leaves', and got so accustomed to wearing it that the uncovering of their defenseless bodies gave them a feeling of cold, fear and the humiliating impression of being again reduced to the primitive fruit-gatherer's state of a helpless 'unarmed animal' exposed to the assault of the better-equipped enemy.
The uncovered body could not have been considered 'indecorous' or 'im-moral'.
The very feeling of sin, the consciousness of having done something 'im-moral', contrary to the mores, customs or habits of the herd, could not be experienced before a part of the herd had wrenched itself free from the inherited behaviour-pattern and radically changed its way of life from that of a frugivorous to that of a carnivorous or omnivorous animal.
Uh... I'm not sure asking which is "most logical" is a particularly useful approach to be taking here, and I have no idea how I would even begin to make such an assessment. Supposing I somehow did, it would be a personal, subjective assessment, and hence, not of much use.
At any rate, it is worth looking at what a "mistake" is, and more importantly, why humans label something as a "mistake" instead of simply an "event." I'd observe that we call something a "mistake" when we believe that it should be some other way. In other words, we make some normative assumption about the world and how it should be, and then call something a "mistake" when it doesn't conform to that expectation. This has a few implications. Firstly, it means the gods can always make "mistakes" if the things they do are deemed undesirable by some particular human. Secondly, it means the more important question to ask might be "does it make sense to project human normative assumptions onto the gods?" Put another way, we should ask the question "does it make sense to judge the gods by human standards?"
My answer to that question is usually no, while acknowledging that humans can't seem to help judging everything and its dog.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Sure, some he even regretted.
1 Samuel 15:11
"I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.
Genesis 6:6
The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
"I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions." Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.
Genesis 6:6
The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God didn't create sin. Nor did God make humanity sin.
Two subjects here. Does God make mistakes? I think yes.
Subject number two: Does prayer change God's plan? Prayer does not change God's plan but adds to it imho.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Do I really need to reiterate this . . . Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.
Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.
The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.
The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That passage says nothing about God creating sin. Read more carefully.