Does God want everyone to believe in him?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That isn't an answer for the question.

It's like asking me "how you know that God does exist", and then my answer to you "read the quran".

Fine.
How seeds grow for kids

Very short explanation of human gestation

I have little to no pity for ignorance about basic facts of life unless your parents locked you in a closet and fed you dog food whilst chained to a wall all your life.

I agree. In most states the sperm egg thing is taught in seventh grade. If you don't understand, it's due to you sleeping in seventh grade (probably) not third.

Sorry. I keep forgetting not everyone did as I did and tried to read Grey's Anatomy before kindergarten.

Well, let's just say "people slept through elementary school grades". That should be happily vague enough.

I know actually that you won't answer the question and you'll direct me to read something.
You weren't able to prove me wrong, good luck

I figured you for someone who dislikes reading for whatever reason, be it laziness or a reading difficulty, etc. That's why I linked easy to understand videos. There are words involved in those videos, but the images move.

Not accepted. You can call it "Belief" if you'd like, but it's faith. You have faith in your Dr. to prescribe the right medication. You don't know if the night before you go to your Dr. he/she had a breakdown and is giving you the wrong medicine. It's faith to get in your car that you have driven hundreds of times and had no problem, you get where you're going and back home. Then one day, by faith that you're done it so many times before, you have a flat tire or you car breaks down. You still get in your car without a thought of not making it back home without any problems. If a person lived to be 40 years old, do they go to bed every night worrying if they will wake up in the morning? They have faith in the unknown that they will. Nothing is guaranteed in this life, no matter how often something happens, but we have faith in the unknown that it will continue to happen.

What if you pray to get rich and a well-to-do loved one dies and leaves you the money? I don't know about anyone else, but life has taught me to value being VERY specific when I pray.

Wrong as doctors are required to pass a mass medical program at university which grants them certification. They must also pass the standards of the state in regards to medical practices. There is a clear trail of evidence which one can evaluate to see if their doctor is qualified or a quack. Besides if my doctor was shown to be a quack I can get another doctor and sue my old one for malpractice as can the state.

That is why pharmacist also have medical degrees. There is a chain of authority everyone goes through to receive medication and each has access to medical records. The pharmacist could see an issue thus prevent a doctor from percribing dangerous medicine. Also I can go to a different doctor for another opinion. I can go to 5 doctors if I wanted to. Besides I have an example. My doctor gave me medication for asthma for years that never worked. My pharmacist talk to me about it and found a medication that could work better. He talked to my doctor about it. My doctor later talked to me about it. In the end the new medication worked wonders. As you can see there are checks and balances within the system and check any individual can take themselves.

Indeed, which is why we can sue medical professionals for malpractice. Try suing a pastor or preacher when they tell you something blatantly wrong.

love overcomes everything.


agathodaimon

A person who is beheaded can come back to life through the Power of Love?

 

[FearGod]

Fine.
How seeds grow for kids

Very short explanation of human gestation

I have little to no pity for ignorance about basic facts of life unless your parents locked you in a closet and fed you dog food whilst chained to a wall all your life.

That wasn't my question, to make the question more clear, how it's programmed to grow?
Can we make a seed that can grow and becomes a tree?
Can we make a sperm and an egg and let them combine and grow to a human being?
That's my question.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

DNA

 

[FearGod]

DNA

And how it's programmed to work in such manner.

 

[prometheus11]

That wasn't my question, to make the question more clear, how it's programmed to grow?
Can we make a seed that can grow and becomes a tree?
Can we make a sperm and an egg and let them combine and grow to a human being?
That's my question.

We can name the mechanisms. If you're looking for the answer to "why" (on any elemental mechanism we can think of) the answer is "We don't know." Logical minds accept and question mystery. We don't fear it or pas it off to other mysteries.

 

[McBell]

And how it's programmed to work in such manner.

You will first need to demonstrate that it was "programmed"
That is your claim, right?
That seeds are "programmed"?

 

[Ingledsva]

Were that the case, it would have to change.

That is a degenerated discussion and not worth anyone's time.

It indeed has unfortunately degenerated, however, it took it's direction with the very first reply - #2, which says -

I don't think there is any god to reveal itself . . . we make this stuff up for various reasons, some people are delusional.

EtuMalku's post does actually fit because part of Red Dragon94's post says - "...The reason why people never believe in God is simply because he never reveals himself to them, as a result they have no choice but to disbelieve...."

Thus began the post asking if God even exists - and real proof of such - since people are making such statements.

But none the less - it has degenerated into an argument (with slander) - rather then a debate.

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[Ingledsva]

I know, I get fustrated when asked to "proove it; and, being in a strict Christian area, surprisingly Idon't get that at all, only online. With that, I personally have to take a step back and ask giving the believer an option to explain his views. When I don't understand I ask for explanation. Usually online, they think I'm another "one of those atheists" which, that alone, is fustrating being put in a box.

So, it sounds like your needing to know isn't based on wanting knowledge and understanding but based on agrivated feelings of what they are claim f or you to accept. Do you get this offline to? Does this pop up and believers push it in your face outside of bringing up a thread about it first?

I still think it's an illogical questions regardless the reasons and feelings behind it. A lot ofnon-believers are asking believers to proove that by definition is not defining about cannot be defined (or physically proven). Hence why do non-believers keep asking this question? And if they are athiest, why ask the question if not out of knowledge, debate, or curiousity not by trying to proove something they clearly believe does not exist? It doesn't make sense to me.

We could turn that around - and ask - since they have no proof - why are they making derogatory statements about people whom don't believe in a God?

They belittle the intelligence, and lifestyle, of people that don't believe in a God.

A few of the things said -

We just aren't ready.

We have no spiritual discernment.

We don't accept because we are sinners.

We don't accept because it would mean we have to leave - our apparently evil - lifestyle.

He is only discernible by those who seek the truth.

I don't think anyone here believes you are prepared to open your eyes to see what is in front of your face."

And on and on.

As such - they have to expect that we will ask for real proof of their Gods.

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[Scuba Pete]

Please show proof of your deity then?

Go watch that video that so offended you again. You're still not getting the point. Proof is fleeting and for most, very subjective.

Here's a quick 'proof' for you: I exist therefore God is. In this case, I am both the evidence and the proof. You may reject either the premise, the evidence or both, but it works just fine for me. Except for math, there are incredibly few absolute proofs. That's the nature of the proof business. Is there any 'proof' for evolution? No. Lots of evidence, but no incontrovertible proof. So what? My conclusion from the fossil evidence I have studied is that evolution is. Many theists as well as atheists adhere to the fallacious premise that somehow science and religion are mutually exclusive. No scripture says "Thou shalt not evolve" anymore than any science discipline says that God does not exist. Belief as well as disbelief is as incredibly personal as it is subjective. Your ego may tell you that your view of God is the only valid one, but you're simply relying on faith either way. Only the true agnostic, who contends that they have no clue about the existence or absence of God, can make the statement that they do not rely on faith to reach their conclusion.

Most people on RF would do well to delve into the types of evidences and what constitutes proof. Few give it even a little thought and base their opinions on the camp they choose to align with. Everybody contends this or that and they have rarely done the due diligence to honestly assert their premises, much less their conclusions. We seem to have a dearth of critical thinking. Oh, people are quick to criticize others but all too slow to see the limits and problems with their own line of thinking. It's easy to ID these people: everything is black and white. IOW, they leave no allowance that they might be wrong. These people are usually as closed minded as the very people they criticize. There is no honor, no logic and certainly no scholarship in their rantings. You don't believe, fine, others do. You do believe, also fine, but others don't.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You say something exist, show us how it exist.

An assertion can either be positive or negative. The person making the assertion either way is the one responsible for providing evidence. In law, the negative is usually proven with an alibi. "I couldn't have killed Mr Mustard in the den because I was in the kitchen." For science to prove the absence of God, it would have to present evidence that something else created the universe and it could not possibly have been God. Good luck with that.

 

[Scuba Pete]

They belittle the intelligence, and lifestyle, of people that don't believe in a God.

Yet you compare believing in God to believing in faeries. Oh the hypocrisy! This is simply the pot calling the kettle black and nothing more. If you're feelings are so fragile that you can't stand people thinking less of you for what you believe then you have the right to remain silent as your sig line states.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Everyone uses faith every day. When we go to our car to start it, we don't say, "boy, I sure hope my car starts."

That's not real faith. Real faith is when you step on the brakes! Most people have no concept of the forces behind applied, how they are amplified and transmitted and converted into heat to retard a vehicle's progress. "It just works!" This is evidenced faith, and with it we turn on lights, make dinner and all sorts of things. Without faith, the individual would come to a halt both physically and emotionally.

 

[prometheus11]

Yet you compare believing in God to believing in faeries. Oh the hypocrisy! This is simply the pot calling the kettle black and nothing more. If you're feelings are so fragile that you can't stand people thinking less of you for what you believe then you have the right to remain silent as your sig line states.

Unless you misunderstood.

Perhaps the comparison was between the level of verifiable evidence for God and fairies? None.

 

[Ingledsva]

Er.... Ingledsva?

I hope you understand that theists here are just playing with you, like playing “got your nose” with a young child. You are not our first rodeo, as Dr. Phil might say.

The usual derogatory statements - rather then rebuttal.

We know where you are coming from. Most of us have been there ourselves. We can tell you things about you that you don't want anyone to know, including yourself; things like how life's uncertainties scare you and that you try to hide the fact behind a facade of belligerence.

LOL! You know nothing of me. And the actual belligerence - isn't from me. You folks are making the derogatory comments - because you don't like my answers.

You have a lot to learn about what constitutes “evidence” and “proof.” Heck, you have a lot to learn about reason and the limitations of science. But you won't learn. I know it and most here know it. You won't learn until the walls you have erected around you come down.

False.

That you are in a religion forum indicates that you are ready for those walls to come down and you want someone to tell you why things are the way they are. But the answer must fit the paradigm must be of your own choosing because if it isn't, you will no longer be in control. And that scares you to death.

Again FALSE!

I am in the forums because I am interested in religion and philosophy, and their impact on ancient people, their movements, culture, language, etc.

I also like the debates.

That "walls," and no longer in control, - is just ridiculous.

Just the opposite in fact.

I was raised in a Christian family - took Comparative Religions, - and a special history course from the Catholic Church.

My studies of the religious texts of the Abrahamic religions proved to me that they were not from any God. I thus TOOK CONTROL, - and left the church.

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[Scuba Pete]

Unless you misunderstood.

Perhaps the comparison was between the level of verifiable evidence for God and fairies? None.

Not quite, Einstein! My hypothesis is that God created me and is responsible for my sentience. My evidence is that I exist, thus fulfilling the hypothesis. You might arrive at a different conclusion based on the same evidence but using a different hypothesis. That's OK. Just realize the limitations of your deductive powers.

 

[prometheus11]

That's not real faith. Real faith is when you step on the brakes! Most people have no concept of the forces behind applied, how they are amplified and transmitted and converted into heat to retard a vehicle's progress. "It just works!" This is evidenced faith, and with it we turn on lights, make dinner and all sorts of things. Without faith, the individual would come to a halt both physically and emotionally.

Nope. When an action gets the same result every time it's not "faith" to believe the same thing will happen the same way again. Faith is the evidence of things "NOT SEEN." Remember?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Nope. When an action gets the same result every time it's not "faith" to believe the same thing will happen the same way again. Faith is the evidence of things "NOT SEEN." Remember?

According to dictionary.com: Faith, the very first entry is the one I am using:

1) Confidence or trust in a person or thing

You're completely free to argue with a sign post and take the wrong way home, but I'm going to settle for this primary definition.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Again FALSE!

This is where I agree with you. To assume that your presence on RF is a predisposition to you being converted is offensive. In fact, it's my feeling that a lot of the animosity between the two factions (theism/atheism) comes from people trying to change each other's minds rather than simply trying to understand why they believe what they do.

 

[prometheus11]

According to dictionary.com: Faith, the very first entry is the one I am using:

1) Confidence or trust in a person or thing

You're completely free to argue with a sign post and take the wrong way home, but I'm going to settle for this primary definition.

No problem. But that's not the same faith as what it takes to believe in unicorns or gods.

The second definition refers to that sort of faith.

 

[Ingledsva]

Yet you compare believing in God to believing in faeries. Oh the hypocrisy! This is simply the pot calling the kettle black and nothing more. If you're feelings are so fragile that you can't stand people thinking less of you for what you believe then you have the right to remain silent as your sig line states.

You had better go back and read that sequence of posts.
My meaning was that both God and fairies are invisible, - thus it is belief in them, - rather then any real proof.

I told you that in post 94.

"My reference to fairies was to point out that fairies and gods are both beliefs that are invisible, thus they are beliefs, with no real proof."

And here is his post and my reply!

The proof is around us, but some see it and some prefer not to see it.

But that is a just saying made up by people that believe in a God.

It has no correlation in the real world.

I might say the proof of fairies is all around us, but some see it and some prefer not to see it.

What I said does not make fairies true.

And to use words like - prefer - is way off the mark, as it implies that they actually see it, and Just choose not to acknowledge it, which is not actually the case.

Many of these were raised in religious households, and traditions. They came - through study of those religious texts, - to find that they are inaccurate, or have no real proof, - thus no reason to believe in a God.

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