I didn't tell them what was in there before we emptied it all to make room for the cake.
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Does having a religion make you a better person?
- Thread starter AnthonyGiarrusso
- Start date
Secret Chief
Very strong language
And I wasn't completely honest with you over some of the cake ingredients either. Still, you came back for more.I didn't tell them what was in there before we emptied it all to make room for the cake.
Well, it was delicious. What more could I ask for?
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Religion doesn't make people, people make religion.Some people might believe that the religious are supreme to the non-religious while the non-religious might seem themselves as supreme to the religious.
How good a person will be is generally based on fundamental characteristics and life experience, especially in childhood. Simply becoming the member of a religion (or indeed leaving one) isn't going to make any difference to that. A good person will continue to be good and a bad person bad in any religion (or none). If anything, the members will have more influence on the religion than the other way around.
Also, you have the vast range of difference between various religions, to the point where many are directly contradictory. I don't see how religion as a general concept can really be any one thing.
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
No.
If you need "religion" to make you a better person, you're not a better person - you're just a wicked person on a leash.
If you need "religion" to make you a better person, you're not a better person - you're just a wicked person on a leash.
ppp
Well-Known Member
I think it is bizarre to think in terms of supremacy over other people.Some people might believe that the religious are supreme to the non-religious while the non-religious might seem themselves as supreme to the religious.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Bull****.
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I am cautious of anyone who believes themselves to be incapable of wicked action and do not see the need for some kind of standard of behavior to hold themselves accountable to.
I prefer someone who knows they are wicked and keeps themselves on a leash to someone who is obliviously evil.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Religion definitely doesn't make people better. Not being religious doesn't make someone automatically better, but most certainly religion has made more people into nasty, hateful sorts than simple nonbelief. Sort of cheap, yes, given nonbelief lacks any sort of dogma and lists of "do this and not that," but thats the reason it hasn't taught, spread or passed down the hatred, bigotry, and violence that religion has historically amd traditionally wrought upon others, especially those who believe the same religion.
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I think it can lead to someone making better choices. I think it depends on the religion, the sect/denomination, the interpretation, and the individual's disposition towards all three, though.
I definitely do not think religion has no effect on behavior and I definitely do not believe that religious effects on behavior are exclusively negative.
I do disagree quite heavily with some religiously inspired ethical philosophies, such as divine command theory and deontology, including what they encourage their adherents to do. Likewise, I am sure said adherents can easily find disagreement with my own ethic.
I do not think there are "better" or "worse" people, though. I think there are better or worse actions. I think moral and ethical language is best reserved for evaluating our own choices rather than judging others.
In that line of thought, a Christian theologian might be the "better person" to choose to teach about Christian theology than an atheist who has never studied theology. Likewise, an atheist biologist might be the "better person" to choose to teach about the Theory of Evolution than a creationist. Notice how they are only better in respect to their candidacy for a specific choice here, not "better" in an intrinsic or essential way.
As such, I think having a religion makes you better for some things and worse for others. It depends.
I definitely do not think religion has no effect on behavior and I definitely do not believe that religious effects on behavior are exclusively negative.
I do disagree quite heavily with some religiously inspired ethical philosophies, such as divine command theory and deontology, including what they encourage their adherents to do. Likewise, I am sure said adherents can easily find disagreement with my own ethic.
I do not think there are "better" or "worse" people, though. I think there are better or worse actions. I think moral and ethical language is best reserved for evaluating our own choices rather than judging others.
In that line of thought, a Christian theologian might be the "better person" to choose to teach about Christian theology than an atheist who has never studied theology. Likewise, an atheist biologist might be the "better person" to choose to teach about the Theory of Evolution than a creationist. Notice how they are only better in respect to their candidacy for a specific choice here, not "better" in an intrinsic or essential way.
As such, I think having a religion makes you better for some things and worse for others. It depends.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
So, if I am a better person made so by a religion, I am a wicked person on a leash. Seems a little harsh.
ppp
Well-Known Member
How so?
Secret Chief
Very strong language
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
If the only reason you don't rape and kill is because you fear some supernatural consequences you aren't a good person. You want to do wrong but you don't because of fear.
If not lying is your policy just because your god doesn't like it, then it seems reasonable the lies will flow if this god is removed from the picture. That's not a good person.
Good people usually just don't do things like fighting, stealing, killing and such. If you need a threat of severe punishment to not do those things or else you'd be doing them then you aren't really a good person.
Secret Chief
Very strong language
Does this generalisation apply in your view to the whole 6 billion?
One might be a better person for being religious without it being about restraining from murder.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
To quote Penn Jillette: "The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want?" And my answer is: I rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them, they would go on killing and raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." I believe that he is spot-on.
Some people might believe that the religious are supreme to the non-religious while the non-religious might seem themselves as supreme to the religious.
It depends on the person and the religion.
Some folks find a religion that helps them improve their life.
For some their religion doesn't help.
Others find they have no need of religion to improve their life.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I have long liked that quote. It's not a normal response in the negative, but affirming he already does. It makes you stop to think a moment because it is presented in an unusual manner.
But it's true. Just as it's true I've killed all the people I really want to kill. Which is actually no one because I've ever seriously and actually wanted to kill anyone. But no one has been more than plenty to get the killing out of my system.
ChieftheCef
Active Member
It can, depending on what one learns. Atheists never would though, too literalistic with words. Too smart, none too wise.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Thise six billion people mostly aren't out to do harm to others. They'd be just fine even without their religion.