Does Identity Politics Promote Tribalism and the Fracturing of Society?

[Revoltingest]

I looked a bit myself. It appears hard to define without the author indulging in their own ideology.

Do you think "oppression " is an essential
element ?

It once was.
Nowadays....I don't think so.
But people can easily see themselves as victims,
eg, Christians who think they're oppressed in Ameristan.

 

[Stevicus]

But people can easily see themselves as victims,
eg, Christians who think they're oppressed in Ameristan.

I've seen many of the same traits among capitalists who think they're oppressed in Ameristan.

 

[Audie]

It once was.
Nowadays....I don't think so.
But people can easily see themselves as victims,
eg, Christians who think they're oppressed in Ameristan.

I think most of what goes into the success
or failure of any group in America is the
stoty they tell themselves.

I could claim oppression in Amrika- intersectionality!
Asian female, immigrant, what else.
Short! You meanies make chairs so big my
legs dangle.

Ive been picked on, who has not.

I could choose to be "triumphantly the victim
of all I survey", or, I can tell myself a different
story.

Chinese in America used to catch a lot of crap,
but the response was as if it is bad weather,
head down, keep going, be a success.

 

[epronovost]

Identity politics is about grouping people, categorizing people, and judging people according certain external observations, such as race, culture, nationality and making assumptions about what they value and what they want. That idea was prevalent in the areas where Martin Luther King protested and opposed the ways of thinking that many people embraced.

Have you even read the definition of the term or you basing this on what you think the terms means. The term identity politics is a sociological terms it has a scientific definition and it's not what you think it is.

Identity politics is a term that describes a political approach wherein people of a particular religion, race, social background, class or other identifying factor develop political agendas and organize based upon the interlocking systems of oppression that affect their lives and come from their various identities. Identity politics centers the lived experiences of those facing various systems of oppression to better understand the ways in which racial, economic, gender, and other forms of oppression are linked and to ensure that political agendas and political actions arising out of identity politics leave no one behind.

Identity politics - Wikipedia.

That's precisely what Martin Luther King did. He is a shinning example of identity politics.

 

[Audie]

I've seen many of the same traits among capitalists who think they're oppressed in Ameristan.

There ya go. Everyone is some sott of oppressed
minority.
The more one group carries on and demands
specal treatment, a bigger more fair slice,
the more the others do.

Its gotten to where the idea of a national
identity is divisive and contemptible.

 

[Sunstone]

Do you think "oppression " is an essential
element ?

Very astute question!

If I may comment on that... I think limiting the scope
of an analysis of identity politics to those groups or
individuals one deems "oppressed" turns the
definition of 'identity politics' into a value judgement,
and as such, un-moors it from any possible claim
it might otherwise have to being objective.

One might still argue the analysis had objective
elements in it, or was 'based on objective facts', but
those arguments would not and could not change
the fact that one has turned the analysis into a
value judgement.

 

[Stevicus]

Have you even read the definition of the term or you basing this on what you think the terms means. The term identity politics is a sociological terms it has a scientific definition and it's not what you think it is.

Identity politics is a term that describes a political approach wherein people of a particular religion, race, social background, class or other identifying factor develop political agendas and organize based upon the interlocking systems of oppression that affect their lives and come from their various identities. Identity politics centers the lived experiences of those facing various systems of oppression to better understand the ways in which racial, economic, gender, and other forms of oppression are linked and to ensure that political agendas and political actions arising out of identity politics leave no one behind.

Identity politics - Wikipedia.

That's precisely what Martin Luther King did. He is a shinning example of identity politics.

I think we're talking more about practice rather than theory. Martin Luther King was long dead before identity politics ever became a thing.

 

[Sunstone]

There ya go. Everyone is some sott of oppressed
minority.
.

I myself belong to the oppressed minority
group of shamelessly bad poets. I'm trying to
organize myself into a voting block of
one in time for the mid-terms, but so
far the consciousness-raising has
failed miserably.

Maybe I'm not doing it right... is
consciousness-raising three parts rum
and one part coffee or vice versa?

 

[Audie]

Very astute question!

If I may comment on that... I think limiting the scope
of an analysis of identity politics to those groups or
individuals one deems "oppressed" turns the
definition of 'identity politics' into a value judgement,
and as such, un-moors it from any possible claim
it might otherwise have to being objective.

One might still argue the analysis had objective
elements in it, or was 'based on objective facts', but
those arguments would not and could not change
the fact that one has turned the analysis into a
value judgement.

A great playground for ideologs

 

[Audie]

I myself belong to the oppressed minority
group of shamelessly bad poets. I'm trying to
organize myself into a voting block of
one in time for the mid-terms, but so
far the consciousness-raising has
failed miserably.

Maybe I'm not doing it right... is
consciousness-raising three parts rum
and one part coffee or vice versa?

The author of the quote. "....minorities and
other oppressed...." declines to respond to my
challenge to the moronosity of the phrase,
making as it does all members of all minority
groups into victims of oppression.

Like you, poor lil thing, or me, when I could buy
everything he owns and bundle it off to Goodwill.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've seen many of the same traits among capitalists who think they're oppressed in Ameristan.

I can't believe that.
We're treated as such saints in the movies!

 

[Stevicus]

There ya go. Everyone is some sott of oppressed
minority.
The more one group carries on and demands
specal treatment, a bigger more fair slice,
the more the others do.

Its gotten to where the idea of a national
identity is divisive and contemptible.

It does appear to have become that. Everybody wants to have an "identity" to have a sense of belonging to something. National identity is one of them, and there was once a time when people embraced "greatness." People would think "our nation is great, our people are great" - that sort of thing. That's still "identity politics," at least in practice. The idea of tying it in to oppression is something that's relatively new. Nowadays, people try to outdo each other and claim that their identity group is more oppressed than others.

It's also incredibly vague as to where the oppression actually comes from, other than statements about "white privilege" or "male privilege," as if being born white or male somehow causes oppression all by itself. This is also another key element in identity politics.

It also has the effect of dividing the various oppressed groups against each other. If they're all oppressed by the same source, then logically, they should all be unified against the common enemy. But they're really not. In fact, it's just the opposite.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm unfamiliar with the construct "identity politics." However, I'm going to assume I'm supposed to answer this question "yes" and conclude it is "bad" because I hear tell I'm supposed to believe tribalism is bad and the fracturing of society is also bad. Whether or not I personally believe any of those things are true probably isn't relevant and probably best kept private from what I've observed.

 

[Stevicus]

I can't believe that.
We're treated as such saints in the movies!

I think it's self-parody when it comes to movies.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think most of what goes into the success
or failure of any group in America is the
stoty they tell themselves.

I could claim oppression in Amrika- intersectionality!
Asian female, immigrant, what else.
Short! You meanies make chairs so big my
legs dangle.

Ive been picked on, who has not.

I could choose to be "triumphantly the victim
of all I survey", or, I can tell myself a different
story.

Chinese in America used to catch a lot of crap,
but the response was as if it is bad weather,
head down, keep going, be a success.

As a member of both the patriarchy & yang guizi,
I offer my condolences for your low status.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think it's self-parody when it comes to movies.

Writers & actors are indeed into money,
but this doesn't make them capitalists.
So perhaps they bite the hand that feeds.

 

[Heyo]

One of the things that lead to the Roman Empire's fall was the adoption of Christianity, and when the church split into two (Catholic vs. Orthodox) so too did the empire (Western vs. Eastern) and continued to go downhill from there.

Nope. The empire was split long before the schisma.

I can't believe that.
We're treated as such saints in the movies!

Not exactly saints but it isn't necessarily a bad picture.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm unfamiliar with the construct "identity politics." However, I'm going to assume I'm supposed to answer this question "yes" and conclude it is "bad" because I hear tell I'm supposed to believe tribalism is bad and the fracturing of society is also bad. Whether or not I personally believe any of those things are true probably isn't relevant and probably best kept private from what I've observed.

Thank you for raising an important point, Quint. Make whatever assumptions you like about my OP -- everyone else does. Me, I have my own views -- which are far more nuanced than I think most people would assume.

 

[Heyo]

I'm unfamiliar with the construct "identity politics." However, I'm going to assume I'm supposed to answer this question "yes" and conclude it is "bad" because I hear tell I'm supposed to believe tribalism is bad and the fracturing of society is also bad. Whether or not I personally believe any of those things are true probably isn't relevant and probably best kept private from what I've observed.

Your identity as an RF poster demands so.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope. The empire was split long before the schisma.

Not exactly saints but it isn't necessarily a bad picture.

And despite those semi-positive examples,
our image is tarnished. Go figure.