Does Islam Need a Reformation?

[outhouse]

Jesus Christ was a healer, a true revelation to the medical world, he taught and healed and promoted great advances in this field.

Really? Name one advancement he made medically

 

[outhouse]

To blame religion is really to stop short of finding the real problem,

I think it Is the core of the problem.

How would you like violent YEC Christians running the whole world using religious armies?

You also fail in retrospect to the hundreds of thousands killed in sectarian violence that spreads out into the world we all live in.

 

[JoStories]

I just realized I am debating an Atheist. Atheism the religion with no morality.

OMG...what is it with people of your faith generalizing so much? Atheists can be some of the more moral poeple in the world. Reducing ALL peoples of one group to stating they are immoral is immoral in and of itself. It is sort of like thinking all Asian are extremely well versed in computers or that all NA's are drunkards. A clear indication of a very closed mind.

 

[JoStories]

Jesus Christ was a healer, a true revelation to the medical world, he taught and healed and promoted great advances in this field. There is no doubt any man who can teach the art of human healing is a very learned man indeed.


Can you substantiate this? I have studied theology and medicine my entire life and to date, having taken many history classes in both, found a source that proves Jesus was a healer. Now, if you are referring to allegorical stories in the Bible, they are just that, allegorical. But to state he was a 'revelation to the medical world" such as Hippocrates, Epicurius, Euclid and others, is really untrue.

 

[Augustus]

However it is not with this in mind that I stated my admiration for Muhammed's achievements, it was in conjunction with what little that he had at his disposal and to yet still achieve those things is unbelievable.

Did he really have 'so little' though? A wealthy tribal leader operating on the periphery of 2 major empires

Jesus Christ was a healer, a true revelation to the medical world, he taught and healed and promoted great advances in this field. There is no doubt any man who can teach the art of human healing is a very learned man indeed. A learned man we can safely say have more at their disposal than a man who cannot read nor write.

What I find truly awesome about Muhammed was the unparalleled support he had from his followers, they would die for him if he commanded it. This shows the level of a man Muhammed was!

In the ancient world, leaders that people would die for were not uncommon though.

I have a PhD and yet I cannot conjure an idea so far fetched as one true God (600AD minds/thinking) and ascertain thousands and thousands into millions, now billions (cumulative figure) to follow me axiomatically and with such high regard that people who have never met me would feel this wretched anger when some cartoonist decides to exercise freedom of expression.

One true God was not an original idea though. And the development of the religion and the large number of followers are a combination of many things, mostly related to people who lived a long time after Muhammed and built and maintained the various empires that have existed in the 'Muslim world'.

And if people wanting to kill others is a 'good' point, Christians have a fair history of that too.

This is a man who cannot read nor write yet founded an idea so strong that it is the very core to the reasons why billions of people have lived their life the way they have. In comparison to Jesus's followers, one of his disciples (Judas) was the one who gave him up..

I am not trying to say Jesus is any less of a man than Muhammed, in fact the Muslims would not agree with that statement anyway. I just think Muhammed's achievements are colossal.

Islamic history is more hagiography than history, but we can safely say that Muhammed was a successful tribal leader with a religious message though. He is certainly one of the most important figures in History, no doubt. But, as with Jesus, most of their achievements were the result of the actions of other people long after they were dead. How much of their religions they are responsible for is also a contentious topic.

Both have massive legacies, it depends on how much 'credit' you give them for what happened after. Neither achieved a massive amount during their lifetime though, and of the 2 I would say Jesus is more influential, as he influenced Muhammed also and has had more followers for the past 1400 years.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

If Islamic powers ruled the world i would be beheaded for my beliefs imho yeah bit of reformation wouldnt go a miss).

 

[Ashraf]

Ayaan Hirsi is a Non-Muslim. She has no right whatsoever in calling for a reformation for Islam

 

[gsa]

Ayaan Hirsi is a Non-Muslim. She has no right whatsoever in calling for a reformation for Islam

As a former Muslim she is in a position to speak to the need for reform I think. Muslims aren't that likely to listen to her in general, but she is certainly in a position to critique the religion and make an informed and educated assessment of its need for reform.

 

[Ashraf]

As a former Muslim she is in a position to speak to the need for reform I think. Muslims aren't that likely to listen to her in general, but she is certainly in a position to critique the religion and make an informed and educated assessment of its need for reform.

She can speak to her Islam basher friends instead. They will certainly listen to her

 

[gsa]

She can speak to her Islam basher friends instead. They will certainly listen to her

Do you have anything to say about the substance of her criticism of Islam?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't think he knows what that word means.

Well...I avoid becoming an anti-theist by reminding myself that there are many theists who don't abrogate personal responsibility by submitting to a set of 'objective' morals written by someone else, and refusing to challenge them. But, of course, some do exactly that. I have little regard for that type of 'moral compass'.

 

[Kirran]

Well...I avoid becoming an anti-theist by reminding myself that there are many theists who don't abrogate personal responsibility by submitting to a set of 'objective' morals written by someone else, and refusing to challenge them. But, of course, some do exactly that. I have little regard for that type of 'moral compass'.

Even many of those who allow a little more room for interpretation. e.g. they think it's objectively true that compassion is moral. Then they figure out what's compassionate and what's not.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Even many of those who allow a little more room for interpretation. e.g. they think it's objectively true that compassion is moral. Then they figure out what's compassionate and what's not.

Hmmm...
I think the key in what I wrote was more 'refuse to challenge them' than 'objective morals'.

I've seen pretty good arguments for objective morality, but all that are good still allow for morals being contextual, if not subjective.

 

[Nietzsche]

-snip-

I think you're reaching just a wee bit.

Also, the Hippocratic Oath predates the Nazarene.