Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

[jazzymom]

Yes I do know that.


I know that too. However, in reality the Jews who lived in the Southern Levant for the most part of the last two thousand years were always in a minority.


Okay


Obviously, since Judaism predates Islam as a religion.


But the Arabs considered that the state they were offered was not fair and not viable. Actually the Jews felt the same because they never accepted the boundaries of the state originally offered to them either.

But it was the Arabs who attacked the Jewish state first in the beginning and lost.
So we will never know the reality of what they accepted or did not accept.

Actually I think had both sides accepted the boundaries and moved on to state building instead of war they both would have a state.

 

[Sunstone]

I was responding to this:

Cassiopia
>>several generations of people have lived there since relocating after the second world war. However, I think they should show respect and understanding to the Arabs who have been living there continuously for much longer, and part of that understanding would mean ensuring an economically viable Palestinian state can exist alongside Israel.<<<

I felt the need to say this because I was responding to a post that gave the implication that Jews from Europe came to settle the land of Israel and that only European Jews settled the land.

I think it is important that when the implication that only European Jews the Azhkanazi came to settle Israel there are other groups of Jews the Sephardic and the Mizrahi and the Mizrahi are the Jews who never left the middle east.

As the Palestinians want to deny Jews are also long term residents of the middle east, it is important to say that this is not the truth.

I submit that Jews and Palestinians have lived in the middle east for 1000s of years and both have a right to be there.

I look to the day they can live side by side in peace but I would like to see honesty.

Both groups have a continuous presence but the Jewish presence predates the Islamic presence.

Thanks. For a variety of reasons, I don't find the "My ancestors were here before your ancestors" argument all that impressive. But I see now what you were doing. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[jazzymom]

Thanks. For a variety of reasons, I don't find the "My ancestors were here before your ancestors" argument all that impressive. But I see now what you were doing. Thanks for the explanation.

I don't either and I don't agree just because it says so in the bible but I do accept that both groups were there for a very long time and for that reason have a right to be there.

It frustrates me when there is denial that the other side was even there. I think both need to have a state side by side and live in peace but we need to have honesty for that to happen.

 

[lunakilo]

Drunk I may be but swedish ... NO! :fight:

And how du the Jutes fit into this again?

 

[Godobeyer]

What extremists do is not what the government does. The fact is in 1967 when the temple mount came under Israeli rule they did not take it over in fact it is now under the Wafq.

Are there Israeli extremists? Yes.

Are there Muslim extremists? Yes

Should everyone be judged by these extremists? No

I am not going to give any time to your videos because videos are sound bites and bits of speech taken out of context and used to spread untruths and to work on peoples emotions. Also your videos re either in arabic or just pictures.

I wish you would be as concerned about the attacks by Muslims as you are about the Jews who carry out price tag attacks. It does happen on both sides.

Jews have a right to go to the temple mount and they have a right to pray as long as they do not bother others.

here the deal .
how you know it's temple mount is there in the place of Masjid Alaqsa ?
then why the jews want to destruct Alaqsa , it's not abuse against the muslims citizens ?
sounds good that you admit that there is extremism jews , but you don't admit that the extremist jews are protect by isreali soldier , if there is a justice and equal they would punished for their provocation and threating to the muslims .
as you do with what you considerate "extrem" palestinias , there are more than 10 thousand palestinians in the jails !!!!
how many isrealis extremist are in jail because,for killing innocents, or destruction homes, or because torture the palestines ....etc

for concerne the attack by extrem muslims to innocent and peaceful jews (suicide bombs), i considerate it crimes , and it's just wrong way revenge.
the revenge should not be practice to the innocents civilians , only with the soldier or ciminals whom made crimes against innocents muslims.

the problem is the israeli regime is non-justice and racist ,instead of punish the criminals jews (soldiers or civilians) they are protected and may supported !!!!, which push the palestinies to take the wrong way of revenge .

 

[jazzymom]

here the deal .
how you know it's temple mount is there in the place of Masjid Alaqsa ?
then why the jews want to destruct Alaqsa , it's not abuse against the muslims citizens ?
sounds good that you admit that there is extremism jews , but you don't admit that the extremist jews are protect by isreali soldier , if there is a justice and equal they would punished for their provocation and threating to the muslims .
as you do with what you considerate "extrem" palestinias , there are more than 10 thousand palestinians in the jails !!!!
how many isrealis extremist are in jail because,for killing innocents, or destruction homes, or because torture the palestines ....etc

for concerne the attack by extrem muslims to innocent and peaceful jews (suicide bombs), i considerate it crimes , and it's just wrong way revenge.
the revenge should not be practice to the innocents civilians , only with the soldier or ciminals whom made crimes against innocents muslims.

the problem is the israeli regime is non-justice and racist ,instead of punish the criminals jews (soldiers or civilians) they are protected and may supported !!!!, which push the palestinies to take the wrong way of revenge .

If the Israelis wanted to take back the Temple Mount it would have been done in 1967 but they didn't. In fact it was given back to the Muslims.

A 3rd temple cannot be build without the return of the Mosiach

As to the Jews who dared to pray at the Temple Mount they were arrested.

Rabbi Arrested on Temple Mount for Praying - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...ested-for-praying-on-temple-mount/2012/10/03/

5 nabbed, Feiglin held for praying on Te... JPost - National News

I have a problem with that rule that Jews are allowed to visit the temple mount but they are not allowed to pray.

It does not hurt Muslims for Jews to pray.

 

[Godobeyer]

If the Israelis wanted to take back the Temple Mount it would have been done in 1967 but they didn't. In fact it was given back to the Muslims.

A 3rd temple cannot be build without the return of the Mosiach

As to the Jews who dared to pray at the Temple Mount they were arrested.

Rabbi Arrested on Temple Mount for Praying - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...ested-for-praying-on-temple-mount/2012/10/03/

5 nabbed, Feiglin held for praying on Te... JPost - National News

I have a problem with that rule that Jews are allowed to visit the temple mount but they are not allowed to pray.

It does not hurt Muslims for Jews to pray.

I considerate it fake (actors) arresting , they allowed to them just visit not praying !!!!
btw , how many jews are in jail because the crims against the innocents palestinians ?



the praying is not the problem the visit in the first place, it is .

why ? because
the extremist jews always want to vist to push out the muslims for it .and destruct the Alaqsa and built in his place "temple" .

 

[jazzymom]

I considerate it fake (actors) arresting , they allowed to them just visit not praying !!!!
btw , how many jews are in jail because the crims against the innocents palestinians ?



the praying is not the problem the visit in the first place, it is .

why ? because
the extremist jews always want to vist to push out the muslims for it .and destruct the Alaqsa and built in his place "temple" .

You are going to believe what you want. I am sorry because I gave you links of Jews being arrested.

Jews have a right to pray.

But I stand by what I said originally. If the Israelis wanted to take the site they would have taken it in 1967 but they did not they gave it to the Muslims.

You obviously have your view and it will not change no matter how many news sites are given with information that counters what you say.

The bottom line any Jew should be able to visit the site and pray.

Praying does not hurt any Muslim.

 

[Flankerl]

the praying is not the problem the visit in the first place, it is .

why ? because
the extremist jews always want to vist to push out the muslims for it .and destruct the Alaqsa and built in his place "temple" .

Yeah uhm there was once a synagogue on top of the temple mount and it coexisted with the muslim buildings. You know jews even visited the dome of the rock and actually stood in front of the even hashetiya.
Then jews were forbidden to... ah nevermind.

The poor muslims...

 

[Godobeyer]

You are going to believe what you want. I am sorry because I gave you links of Jews being arrested.

Jews have a right to pray.

But I stand by what I said originally. If the Israelis wanted to take the site they would have taken it in 1967 but they did not they gave it to the Muslims.

You obviously have your view and it will not change no matter how many news sites are given with information that counters what you say.

The bottom line any Jew should be able to visit the site and pray.

Praying does not hurt any Muslim.

of course if it's just a pray it's not problem , but it's a daily threaten by extrem jews to destruct Alaqsa and rebuilt instead of it the temple .


don't be sorry to post links because :

you don't answser to my question !!!
about injustice and racist goverment .
are there jews in jail because killing innocent muslims ?
because there are more than 10 000 palestinias in jails !!!

that's why i considerate your link as indeed fake acting (actors) .

 

[jazzymom]

of course if it's just a pray it's not problem , but it's a daily threaten by extrem jews to destruct Alaqsa and rebuilt instead of it the temple .


don't be sorry to post links because :

you don't answser to my question !!!
about injustice and racist goverment .
are there jews in jail because killing innocent muslims ?
because there are more than 10 000 palestinias in jails !!!

that's why i considerate your link as indeed fake acting (actors) .

There are Palestinians jailed for breaking the law and for committing murder and violent acts.

That is where they belong.

The Jews were arrested for attempting to pray.

 

[Godobeyer]

There are Palestinians jailed for breaking the law and for committing murder and violent acts.

That is where they belong.

The Jews were arrested for attempting to pray.

this question is repeated for third time

are there jews in jail because killing innocent muslims ?

 

[Flankerl]

of course if it's just a pray it's not problem , but it's a daily threaten by extrem jews to destruct Alaqsa and rebuilt instead of it the temple .

Awwwwwwwww cry me a river.
How about the daily threats by muslim extremists against all jewish stuff?

And praying on the temple mount is quite a problem for the muslims there.

this question is repeated for third time

are there jews in jail because killing innocent muslims ?

Oh my what a stupid question.

 

[Cassiopia]

What is shown on the news in America or Germany is very different from what is shown on the news in Algeria. What we believe tends to be informed by what is normal in the culture that surrounds us.
This thread is an opportunity to understand other perspectives rather than dismiss them out of hand.

 

[Shermana]

this question is repeated for third time

are there jews in jail because killing innocent muslims ?

Does attempted murder count?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/w...tinians-in-jerusalem.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[jazzymom]

What is shown on the news in America or Germany is very different from what is shown on the news in Algeria. What we believe tends to be informed by what is normal in the culture that surrounds us.
This thread is an opportunity to understand other perspectives rather than dismiss them out of hand.

There are many ways to get unbiased information. There are news casts from Arab countries in english. There are printed news one can read.

With the internet and the ability to access tv channels that come from other countries I suspect that those of us in the West are not as uninformed as you would think.

 

[jazzymom]

this question is repeated for third time

are there jews in jail because killing innocent muslims ?

Sarcastic rolling of your eyes because I haven't answered your question is almost guaranteed to get no response from me.

Israeli jails are filled with people from all religious backgrounds.
So I can almost guarantee that Jews who killed Palestinians are there and Palestinians who killed Jews are there.

As to their innocence or guilt? Only G-d knows.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israeli jails are filled with people from all religious backgrounds. So I can almost guarantee that Jews who killed Palestinians are there and Palestinians who killed Jews are there.

That is almost certainly true. But let me ask you a question: Do you honestly believe that there is equal justice for all streams of Israeli society?

 

[jazzymom]

That is almost certainly true. But let me ask you a question: Do you honestly believe that there is equal justice for all streams of Israeli society?

I don't believe there is fairness in any society within the justice system when it comes to minorities. I believe there is great bias in societies.

In my country, in Israel, in other parts of the world.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't believe there is fairness in any society within the justice system when it comes to minorities. I believe there is great bias in societies.

In my country, in Israel, in other parts of the world.

I found that to be a valuable response. Thanks.