Does it Matter that Hitler was a Theist?

[Dingbat]

The original argument, yes. But I've said you were employing a double standard on those grounds here no less than 4 times. You even whined about it more than once, so quit with the amnesia ploy.


I claimed that the Nazis were fascists despite their name, and provided evidence. I also, in the course of the original argument, brought up Hitler's claims of Christianity, which you adamantly denied, and proceded to call you on the double standard way back then. Not my fault you continue to employ it.


Yes, I'm well aware you'd be much happier if I'd just go away. However, I've been around here a hell of a lot longer than you, and I really don't care. If you want to throw a hissy fit every time someone proves you wrong, I'll just stock up on popcorn.

I found it amusing when I was discussing his avoidance of calling the NSDAP socialist he rails on me in regards to Catholicism. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

 

[1robin]

Hitlers religious beliefs were as skewed as his political beliefs. Being that if a monster like him can get away with "believing in God", then chances are this God of his is just as monstrous.

Well as a Christian I believe in Satan, will you let him take the rap for anything I do even if inconsistent with him. Actually when dealing with a Satanist it gets rather complex. What particular brand of Satan do you prescribe to?

 

[Dingbat]

Well as a Christian I believe in Satan, will you let him take the rap for anything I do even if inconsistent with him. Actually when dealing with a Satanist it gets rather complex. What particular brand of Satan do you prescribe to?

It is amusing how you can't stay on topic. First you derailed the thread into a topic about evolution, then took your time to bash Muslims, and now I guess it is time for the Satanists to listen to the rantings of a Baptist.

 

[Noaidi]

If God exists then his moral requirements are absolute and at least objective in effect if not nature.

And what are these moral requirements that are absolute?

 

[Orias]

Well as a Christian I believe in Satan, will you let him take the rap for anything I do even if inconsistent with him. Actually when dealing with a Satanist it gets rather complex. What particular brand of Satan do you prescribe to?

Theres nothing particular about it.

Brands only matter if you want to fit in.

 

[1robin]

Theres nothing particular about it.

Brands only matter if you want to fit in.

There must be something particular about it. There is something particular about everything that actually exists. I assume you have a different view than the most exhaustive and reliable text in the world concerning Satan, the Bible. I am always interested in what Satanist's hang their faith on. It is either the most diabolical creature to ever exist as recorded in the Bible who is eventually destroyed or some concept that is from a less reliable source that is not so negative and I am always interested in what source that might be. I know my comments are inflamitory but I do not know how to ask the question that wouldn't be. Another Satanist had a very sophisticated "theology" so to speak but would never tell me what text it was from and I was curious to see if your views were similar to his. He said he even wrote a book on it or was writing one.

 

[Dingbat]

I sure am laughing a lot for someone so mad. Why don't you answer my questions in the other thread about Britian and France's war with Israel. I was very interested in that.

Proving my point one post at a time. :biglaugh:

 

[Storm]

I sure am laughing a lot for someone so mad. Why don't you answer my questions in the other thread about Britian and France's war with Israel. I was very interested in that.

Maybe because you don't bother with any argument or question that you don't have a prepackaged soundbyte for?

 

[Awoon]

Didnt Hitler die like 67yrs ago?

 

[1robin]

And what are these moral requirements that are absolute?

I can list some if you want but that isn't really the point. If God exists then his morality would be absolute no matter what it was. If the concept of God was anything similar to what is in the big three religions then he has complete sovereignty and we will all be accountable for whatever the morals were. He would have perfect knowledge of each person’s record and would have the power to effect absolute judgment. The hypothetical implications are clear but the application would be far more complex. Biblical morality is not really meant for a state but for an individual.

I feel like I did not answer you so I will give at least one.

Murder (unjustified killing) is forbidden for anyone.

 

[1robin]

Proving my point one post at a time. :biglaugh:

I guess that was a no.

 

[1robin]

Maybe because you don't bother with any argument or question that you don't have a prepackaged soundbyte for?

I already told you I am burned out with the personal garbage and do not intend to respond to it or in kind at least for now. I also will address your Hitler's socialism obsession but that takes a lot of time and won't be right now.

 

[Noaidi]

Murder (unjustified killing) is forbidden for anyone.

Does that also apply to your god? I'm just thinking of 7 or so chapters into Genesis, and he's killed virtually everything - plants, animals, unborn foetuses...
Considerably more than Hitler, yes?

 

[LuisDantas]

That is quite remarkable. So you think it is better to have morality defined by opinion.

Try reading what I actually said and asking if you don't understand what I mean. It has been known to help.

 

[Storm]

I already told you I am burned out with the personal garbage and do not intend to respond to it or in kind at least for now. I also will address your Hitler's socialism obsession but that takes a lot of time and won't be right now.

It really doesn't take that much time. Just the intro to the Wiki.

 

[1robin]

Try reading what I actually said and asking if you don't understand what I mean. It has been known to help.

What in the world? Let's back this up a bit. I asked you this:

Is it better to associate ones morality with opinion or preference?

You answered with this:

Definitely.

I was suprised and so I clarified with this:

So you think it is better to have morality defined by opinion.

To which you said read what you wrote.

In how many ways can definately be understood? I do not get it.

Unless you thought I was asking you to choose between opinion and preference.
I think it was pretty apparent I was asking you to choose between (opinion, preference) and God so I am still confused.

 

[LuisDantas]

HI LuisDantas!
................ is there anything suggesting that he was an atheist?
Did he go to a religious service very often in his last ten years?

I have no idea. Do you know?

Racists often make exceptions for specific people. It is an important part of their self-justification, even.
How was preserving his family doctor a self-justification? He simply felt that he owed the guy for the care given to his mother.

Monsters usually have token gestures to prove to themselves (and to use as propaganda) that they are not monsters.

But wait, are you telling me that you don't believe Hitler really hated Jews?

Uh... in the Bible, perhaps? It certainly has enough passages justifying violence and hatred, going all the way back to Moses acting very Hitler-like in Numbers 31.
So you don't think Hitler could have worked out his strategy all by himself. He needed to get the idea from a bible. Yes?

Not at all, for it is after all a very basic idea.

Seeing it endorsed by the example of Moses in the Bible probably hindered his judgement of the moral validity of it, however.

Perhaps more to the point, it seems that his appeal to Biblical justifications was largely succesfull. It is bad enough that his own personal beliefs are so monstrous, but it was a historical calamity that the German people failed to ridicule them soon enough.

Where do you get that impression? It seems to me that he was yet another among many dictators that do see themselves as agents of God.
No. I don't think Hitler was a schizophrenic. I think he was psychotic.

He was. And as many other psychotics, he had delusions of divine grandeur. I once met one that actually gave me the percentage of odds for her being the next Messiah.

I would like to see some evidence in that direction, as well. People often forget how much support Hitler had at the time, at least until he began killing Jews.
So you are having trouble in seeing that the Vatican was under total duress?

Yes, I am indeed. I flat out doubt it, in fact.

While I have not researched the matter at all deeply, I am willing to bet that the Pope took his own sweet time to realize that allying with Hitler was a disastrous move.

Truth be told, he was in excellent company; Hitler would be just a footnote in History if he had not received so much space to act by the people around him.

............. many psychopath murderers do, in fact, have a strong if obviously insane belief that they act on God's behalf. I don't blame you in disregarding their belief as the insanity that it truly is... but that does not make them atheists, and it is arguable that it doesn't make them any less theists either.
No. Psycopaths get guilty verdicts, because they are just ruthless unscrupulous amoral immoral nasties. Scizophrenics (who receives messages, etc) often get 'Not guilty by reason of insanity' verdicts. Hitler was acting on his own behalf, and at the end he even disowned his own race........ 'They did not deserve to win' rant.

With all due respect, I don't think you quite know what you are talking about.

In fact, there is the unconfortable but real worry that they may not be all that unusual or distinguishable from "regular" theists. Which is one question that the OP ends up presenting and that deserves consideration.
Ever heard of Stalin? There must be scores like him. So you think that most crazy genocide merchants are probably theists? Really?

Definitely. Don't you?

In my experience, unballanced theists are the most dangerous of all people. They allow themselves destructive behaviors that other people would never engage into.

Although I do wonder how many of them are merchants at all; why did you include that word?

It is certainly not evidence of being Atheist, though. Much less of having an atheist ideology.
If Hitler had had a cross in his Bunker,or at Bechesgarten, it would have been a remarkable find for the Allies.

Swastikas are crosses, you know. Stylized and branded to suit Nazi purposes, sure - but how different is that from the denomination-specific stylized crosses that many churches use to this day?

I wonder, did he actually claim to? His talk about racial purity was not really very technical at all, far as I can tell.
Hitler did not need technical ability. He needed some amazing form of power of attraction to gain such a foothold. Evolution is what affects people, regardless of their power of intellect.

Well, we may agree that he misrepresented evolution. That is a start.

As for Hitler's Table Talk, I fear that it is not a reliable source about Hitler's supposed atheism.
Well, despite your fear, I am interested in it and would like to learn more.

I didn't have an agenda for Hitler to be an atheist. Do you have an agenda for him to have been a theist?

Not really. That would be less than honest, for starters.

I _do_ have conviction that he was a theist, however; his behavior was simply not consistent with any other conceivable hypothesis.

 

[1robin]

Does that also apply to your god? I'm just thinking of 7 or so chapters into Genesis, and he's killed virtually everything - plants, animals, unborn foetuses...Considerably more than Hitler, yes?

Do you know whether the flood is literal or allegory? Do you know how many people were killed? I have seen rough guesstimates and the numbers were not even close to the 6 million Jews alone he killed but that doesn't make it any less wrong or right. I have typed an answer to your question about 3 times and was dissatisfied with them all. I am just too burned out, and this is just too complex. I will address this, as it is a very important point and I sympathize but I can't seem to do it justice right now. If I forget you may remind me all you wish and I will answer.

 

[1robin]

It really doesn't take that much time. Just the intro to the Wiki.

I hate to say this but I think I am going to have to partially agree with you about Hitler and socialism. That is a very dissagreeable thing to me and an impossible one for many so I am going to have to make sure and see to what percentage I will have to agree. I think his actions at times were consistent with socialism and at times not and I will have to see what percentage (approx) that will be and that will take time. It will not be today.

 

[LuisDantas]

@1robin: I give up. You are not paying enough attention to the posts to be worth my time.