Does it really matter if we believe in God?

[Shadow Wolf]

I would think any being worthy of being called a god would be understanding of our plights and not care much if we believe, don't believe, or don't know what to make of it all.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would think any being worthy of being called a god would be understanding of our plights and not care much if we believe, don't believe, or don't know what to make of it all.

God does understand and He loves us all regardless of belief.

 

[Jollybear]

Help me there. What would be some hypothetical answers that you could make sense of?

The only one i can possibly but remotely fathom is wanting freedom from God/religion/spirituality. Freedom to be what one wants in there own desires.

But, notice i said remotely? I said that because Gods ways are in our best interest.

But, anyhow, you may have a different reason. I wanna know your actual reason you reject religion?

 

[viole]

I do not make assumptions, but I had to start somewhere. I looked at all the religion and that led me to a premise. The premise is that the ONLY way we can know anything about God is through what the Messengers of God reveal in scriptures. The conclusion is that God sent Messengers to reveal Himself and His Will for humanity.

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.[1] The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning - Wikipedia​

Belief that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God is not circular because I did not begin with what I wanted to end with. In other words, I did not say that Baha’u’llah is a Messenger because Baha’u’llah said He was a Messenger.

The evidence that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger is not that Baha’u’llah said He was a Messenger because that would be circular reasoning.

The evidence that Baha’u’llah was who He claimed to be is everything that surrounds the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, including who He was as a Person (His character); His mission on earth; the history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward; the scriptures that He wrote; what His appointed Interpreters wrote; what others have written about the Baha’i Faith; the Bible prophecies that He fulfilled, as well as prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled; predictions He made that have come to pass; the religion that He established (followers) all over the world and what they have done and are doing now.

There is no proof that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God, as nobody can prove that as a fact, but the evidence I listed above is proof to those of us who find the evidence compelling.

No, I am not alone. All theists are similar to me because they have similar premises and conclusions. The hundred-dollar questions are:

(1) Why are religion and Messengers of God so problematic to atheists?
(2) In what other way could God provide evidence for His existence and convey a message?

I live for the day when I finally get logical answers to those questions.

There is no other way. And that is my thesis.
Messangers of God do not qualify as evidence for God, at all.

Ciao

- viole

 

[LuisDantas]

The only one i can possibly but remotely fathom is wanting freedom from God/religion/spirituality. Freedom to be what one wants in there own desires.

That one is inherently self-contradictory, though. And not by accident, worlds appart from reality as well.

It seems to me that you just can't accept what I say.

 

[mistoftime]

I don't believe in any god. I have no problem with those who do as long as they don't try to make me believe in their faith.

 

[stvdv]

I have spoken about illusion several times. I return to it once more. I begin to see that phenomenal existence, whether on earth or here, is so impermanent as to be unreal. This is a hard saying. I do not yet understand it.

Thanks for these nice verses. This one I like, because once you realize whatever experienced by the senses to be impermanent, it's easier to let go and thereby let go "the unreal". When I let go of the unreal, the real remains. Self Realization is very simple to attain BUT not easy as long as we are attached to sensory experiences.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My Master makes it clear there are no repercussions of "non-belief" ... I like this view better than the Christian view

The Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the non beleif is its own punishment. It is explained it is to be like a rock in relation to man. The rock exists in this world, but we must ask, what can it see, feel, taste, hear and know in relation to man?

Then we have Love, this is what man has been created for and the source is God. Our created purpose is to know God, to know Love. This potential is dormant within us all, we are created at the end if darkness and the beginning of light and given a world requiring choice. Choice of full virtue or lack of virtue.

Thus can we see, that to not choose to pursue the path of discovering true love, then the result of ones choice, is that in the matrix of this world they not to develop the required spiritual limbs that would allow that Love to be experienced in all the worlds of God yet to come. Instead, by choice, one chose to be a rock in the worlds to come.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the non beleif is its own punishment.

And what exactly would that punishment be, according to Baha'i?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what exactly would that punishment be, according to Baha'i?

Ones own choices, that are not Godly.

This one way Baha'u'llah explains it;

"Had the world been of any worth in His sight, He surely would never have allowed His enemies to possess it, even to the extent of a grain of mustard seed. He hath, however, caused you to be entangled with its affairs, in return for what your hands have wrought in His Cause. This, indeed, is a chastisement which ye, of your own will, have inflicted upon yourselves, could ye but perceive it." (Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209)

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Ones own choices, that are not Godly.

This one way Baha'u'llah explains it;

"Had the world been of any worth in His sight, He surely would never have allowed His enemies to possess it, even to the extent of a grain of mustard seed. He hath, however, caused you to be entangled with its affairs, in return for what your hands have wrought in His Cause. This, indeed, is a chastisement which ye, of your own will, have inflicted upon yourselves, could ye but perceive it." (Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209)

So not believing in God is a punishment in and of itself? I have yet to decipher the words of your prophet to any degree, so can't go by what he says.

I certainly didn't think the atheists I have known were being punished. Most seem(ed) to be happy folk. Being happy doesn't seem to me to much of a punishment. Some religious folk, OTOH, seemed eternally angry.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So not believing in God is a punishment in and of itself? I have yet to decipher the words of your prophet to any degree, so can't go by what he says.

I certainly didn't think the atheists I have known were being punished. Most seem(ed) to be happy folk. Being happy doesn't seem to me to much of a punishment. Some religious folk, OTOH, seemed eternally angry.

Yes not accepting God is its own punishment, as happiness in this world is only a chimera.

I am sure you would have thoughts on that matter that reflect this concept.

Be happy, be happy, be full of joy.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes not accepting God is its own punishment, as happiness in this world is only a chimera.

I am sure you would have thoughts on that matter that reflect this concept.

Yes I have thoughts. Firstly, there is no such thing as punishment in my faith. That's a totally Abrahamic idea. The idea that God would punish someone for not believing in him simply isn't my God ... at all.

But people are free to believe in a God that punishes if they want to. Who am I to stop them? But yes, this if more Baha'ispeak. Non-Baha'is are punished, blind, ill, diseased, and more. I am curious to what allows people to think this way.

So I have thoughts, but thay in no way reflect your ideas. Very different paradigms.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes I have thoughts. Firstly, there is no such thing as punishment in my faith. That's a totally Abrahamic idea. The idea that God would punish someone for not believing in him simply isn't my God ... at all.

But people are free to believe in a God that punishes if they want to. Who am I to stop them? But yes, this if more Baha'ispeak. Non-Baha'is are punished, blind, ill, diseased, and more. I am curious to what allows people to think this way.

So I have thoughts, but thay in no way reflect your ideas. Very different paradigms.

Does your Faith have any Laws? What about murder, rape, theft?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Does your Faith have any Laws? What about murder, rape, theft?

Regards Tony

You're changing the topic. I gave you my thoughts on punishment simply for being an atheist. In Hinduism, there is no such punishment from a wrathful 'god'. My God loves all.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You're changing the topic. I gave you my thoughts on punishment simply for being an atheist. In Hinduism, there is no such punishment from a wrathful 'god'. My God loves all.

Yes God does Love all. The question I asked is logically a required aspect of Love.

Some may see punisment as vengeful, some may see it as liberating.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes God does Love all. The question I asked is logically a required aspect of Love.

Which question are you referring to? If punishment is liberating, why don't you go get a gun and liberate a bunch of people? Beating up on family and friends would liberate them?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Which question are you referring to? If punishment is liberating, why don't you go get a gun and liberate a bunch of people? Beating up on family and friends would liberate them?

Sin is death, thus having owned up to and faced your punishment you are again free to make better choices, as Christ has said;

John 8:23 “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

The Love taught by Christ releases us from this world. It is the teaching of being born again and it is applicable to all God's Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Sin is death, thus having owned up to and faced your punishment you are again free to make better choices, as Christ has said;

John 8:23 “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

The Love taught by Christ releases us from this world. It is the teaching of being born again and it is applicable to all God's Messengers.

There is no sin in my religion either. No Christ either. No Messengers either. All of which begs the question ... are you addressing me, or somebody else?
Very different paradigms.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is no sin in my religion either. No Christ either. No Messengers either. All of which begs the question ... are you addressing me, or somebody else?
Very different paradigms.

As different as one wishes to make them.

Stay well. Regards Tony