Does Karma Exist

[Quagmire]

Any.


It's more Kong Qiu, actually. We each "decide" what is right-thinking because we are each sensitive to the best way that the world should be.


Behaving virtuously is behaving in accord with your beliefs. That you have beliefs at all, I guess, would be the "standard" (if you insist that there be one).

I have no doubt that Adolf Hitler, being human, engaged in virtuous behavior. We all do to some extent.
.

He certainly sounded like he believed what he was saying.

 

[Willamena]

He certainly sounded like he believed what he was saying.

I'm not a he.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Karma is the constant reevaluation of one's self-image through observation of one's actions.

It exists, so long as you aren't a Buddha.

 

[YmirGF]

Karma is the constant reevaluation of one's self-image through observation of one's actions.

Obsessive mindfulness?

It exists, so long as you aren't a Buddha.

Well, that settles it then, doesn't it?

I'm not a he.

According to my Acme InterGalactic TransDimension decoder ring, Quaggy was talking about 'Dolf, not you.

 

[Quagmire]

I'm not a he.

I was talking about Hitler.

 

[Willamena]

I was talking about Hitler.

Why is this relevant to anything I said?

 

[LuisDantas]

Why is this relevant to anything I said?

Because he found the bolded parts difficult to reconcile, if I understood him correctly:

Behaving virtuously is behaving in accord with your beliefs. That you have beliefs at all, I guess, would be the "standard" (if you insist that there be one).

I have no doubt that Adolf Hitler, being human, engaged in virtuous behavior. We all do to some extent.

 

[Madhuri]

LOL nothing like that Willamena. I meant if you hurt someone will one be equally hurt in return (just an example)? I have seen many people in my lives who haven't been punished for their wrongdoings. And some among them I know up close.

So sometimes I wonder will I be happier being bad? Well at least they are.

Karma without reincarnation doesn't work imo. Obviously there are many horrible people who do bad things but have good luck all the time. And good people who are constantly mistreated.
Karma works over lifetimes, meaning that our good or bad deeds now influence us both in this lifetime and the following. If we suffer now it is because of deeds we committed in previous lifetimes.

If reincarnation isn't a reality then the karma concept doesn't make sense.

 

[Willamena]

Because he found the bolded parts difficult to reconcile, if I understood him correctly:

Why is it difficult to reconcile that we all have beliefs and that we oftentimes act in accord with our beliefs?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Obsessive mindfulness?

Mindfulness implies an acceptance of events without ascribing them to the ego. "This is, that is," not "I am this, I am that."

This is more like borderline personality disorder, or freshman year of high school.

Obsessive mindfulness?


Well, that settles it then, doesn't it?

You deny that people create their self-images based on their actions?

 

[natsy]

Does karma (reaping the rewards of one's good/bad deeds, not the Dharmic concept) exist? My personal experience says no. What do you guys say?

no it doesn't ,iv known bad people have good things happen to them all there life, and iv know good people have bad things happen to them all there life ,, if it was true then these situations would be reversed,,,,load of rubbish mate

 

[Sees]

Karma certainly exists because of causality, connectivity, etc....the specifics of how we understand it, believe in it, and so on - depends. For me it's about thoughts and actions contributing to well-being and happiness. Your karma is connected to that of the world and others (all the more with the closer they are to you physically, emotionally, etc.) - you will get pushed, bumped, ran over from time to time by stuff that isn't much related to your own doing.

I think that karma as an impersonal, cosmic Santa Claus with a naughty and nice list overshadows the more down to earth approach because people want it to seem superstitious for whatever reason.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why is it difficult to reconcile that we all have beliefs and that we oftentimes act in accord with our beliefs?

That part is very easy. But it is difficult to reconcile with your definition of virtuous behavior as being that in harmony with our beliefs.

Unless, perhaps, you are proposing that Hitler was being virtuous in expressing his beliefs, despite the price everyone paid for that?

 

[LuisDantas]

Karma without reincarnation doesn't work imo.

It is only a problem if one expects Karma to acknowledge the existence of individuals and take pains to do justice to them.

Which, it seems clear to me, it indeed fails to.

Obviously there are many horrible people who do bad things but have good luck all the time. And good people who are constantly mistreated.
Karma works over lifetimes, meaning that our good or bad deeds now influence us both in this lifetime and the following. If we suffer now it is because of deeds we committed in previous lifetimes.

Pretty much, Devi. :yes:

It is impressive how much such a short text changes meaning, though, depending on wheter one believes that lifetimes somehow represent the same individual or not.

I agree with every word of your paragraph above. But I have previously established the premise that there is no such thing as an individual who could reincarnate, and therefore Karma does not work on individuals either.

Lifetimes, at least by my understanding, are a collective resource, never an individual one. We are all inheritors and caretakers of everyone else, as well as our own. Even if we never accept or understand the implications of that duty.

If reincarnation isn't a reality then the karma concept doesn't make sense.

Karma does indeed fail to make sense as long as anyone expects it to work at the individual level.

 

[sun rise]

A couple of side notes. First, Karma to me is the extension of the law of physics about every action causing a reaction onto another level.

The second note is that the Bible has many verses about reaping and sowing that basically express this same principle, albeit in a Judeo-Christian context What Does the Bible Say About Reaping What You Sow?

 

[LuisDantas]

A couple of side notes. First, Karma to me is the extension of the law of physics about every action causing a reaction onto another level.

Do you mean the Third Law of Newton?

Newton's laws of motion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I feel that I must warn you that this is a misreading. The Third Law is both explicitly limited to matters of movement of physical objects and to reactions at the same level and, in fact, same nature, albeit with opposite direction. It also happens at the very same moment in time.

Extrapolating it into other fields is IMO quite unproper. At best it works as a literary device.

The second note is that the Bible has many verses about reaping and sowing that basically express this same principle, albeit in a Judeo-Christian context What Does the Bible Say About Reaping What You Sow?

One should indeed expect various religions - or even any religion that takes itself seriously enough - to have some form of that teaching.

 

[Willamena]

That part is very easy. But it is difficult to reconcile with your definition of virtuous behavior as being that in harmony with our beliefs.

Unless, perhaps, you are proposing that Hitler was being virtuous in expressing his beliefs, despite the price everyone paid for that?

I proposed that virtuous behavior is acting in accord with your beliefs.

 

[LuisDantas]

I proposed that virtuous behavior is acting in accord with your beliefs.

Indeed, and that is what several of us (myself included) seem to have a hard time with.

Specifically, how does that apply to people like Hitler, who at least at first glance seem to be acting with full accordance to their beliefs yet in a very un-virtuous manner?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Karma certainly exists because of causality, connectivity, etc....the specifics of how we understand it, believe in it, and so on - depends. For me it's about thoughts and actions contributing to well-being and happiness. Your karma is connected to that of the world and others (all the more with the closer they are to you physically, emotionally, etc.) - you will get pushed, bumped, ran over from time to time by stuff that isn't much related to your own doing.

I think that karma as an impersonal, cosmic Santa Claus with a naughty and nice list overshadows the more down to earth approach because people want it to seem superstitious for whatever reason.

I agree with this. In the sense of connectivity and causality yes, poor decisions through life have a way of coming back to kick you in the a** later on.

 

[YmirGF]

Karma works over lifetimes, meaning that our good or bad deeds now influence us both in this lifetime and the following. If we suffer now it is because of deeds we committed in previous lifetimes.

I love you dearly, Madhuri, but I flatly reject this concept. The concept is based on an erroneous understanding of time, as being is not a linear affair, but more like hop scotch.

If reincarnation isn't a reality then the karma concept doesn't make sense.

There is also the possibility that both concepts are deeply flawed.

Mindfulness implies an acceptance of events without ascribing them to the ego. "This is, that is," not "I am this, I am that."

This is more like borderline personality disorder, or freshman year of high school.

I know very well what mindfulness is, my friend. Your presentation of it just struck my funny bone.

You deny that people create their self-images based on their actions?

Thinks for a split nanosecond... I suppose they could, but I would expect that it is really the other way around, if we're talking turkey, at least.

I proposed that virtuous behavior is acting in accord with your beliefs.

Persoanlly, I think that is rather lame. Charles Manson is a virtuous fellow now? Osama bin Hindin' was virtuous? To me, at least, your definition robs the word virtuous of any real meaning, in the same way that if everyone is special, then in reality, no one is special.

Indeed, and that is what several of us (myself included) seem to have a hard time with.

Specifically, how does that apply to people like Hitler, who at least at first glance seem to be acting with full accordance to their beliefs yet in a very un-virtuous manner?

It's not you, Luis. It is simply nonsense.