Willful ignorance run amok. Surprise!
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Does logic equal truth?
- Thread starter God lover
- Start date
Shad
Veteran Member
To be without time is to be static. There is no process of thought A to thought B, no act from A to B. Thus no process of "lack of creation" to "creation" as this process is within time a time reference. Timeless is only defined by negation and it is incoherent when evaluated.
If outside of time then God is incoherent. If bound by time you undermine claims of creating anything as time is part of reality not the tracking of it.
- History
- teachings of Jesus
- bibles ability to make sense of this world
- the complexity on earth as discovered by science
- personal experience
The one that takes the cake for me is personal experience. But that offers little to another person.
That's where I'm at.
Not trying to beat you in an argument. Just saying my heart. It's where I'm at so far.[/QUOTE]
History is not religion nor God so has little merit as you must include every other religion that is part of history. However I doubt you consider this.
Jesus' nice verses are undermined by his demands of perfection then forcing people to admit they can not meet it. It is also undermined by his apocalyptic rhetoric, threats of violence and views of unbelievers. Which is typical of Abrahamic religions as without threats all 3 are intellectual empty.
Science makes more sense of the world than the Bible. Greek philsophy makes more sense of the world than the Bible. the bible only makes sense once you place in within it's environment. Which ends up showing how people develop mythology to control people, justify their horrible acts via God, how the Canaanite religion in part was assimilated thus the foundation of the Bible's so-called "true" religion. Keep in mind you mentioned history. History does not agree with key narratives of the Bible to the point that certain events as dismissed entirely as constructs.
If complexity requires God then God requires it's own creator, divine simplicity being complete nonsense in the form of special pleading
Personal experiences which are contradicted by other people's personal experience. Personal experience can also be delusions or tricks of the mind or body. Personal experience is of little view.
You may have "reasons" by many are not rational thus not truly reasons
God lover
Member
Agreed!!!
NightDreamer
Follower of the Lightbringer
Logically speaking, everything we profess to know comes from logical infallices. It shows us that the only truth we that we know is that we do not know anything.
God lover
Member
I hear you on this. What you just said is kind of what I have been realizing as we have been discussing this. So, good point.
However, I feel like there are definitely some things I do know. I know there is a universe. I know I exist. I know gravityholds me on earth. I know I am a male. I know my name. I know I sleep in a bed at night. I know I like peaches.
Maybe I don't know everything about peaches. What is their molecular structure? What vitamin are they most full of? What does the dna of a peach look like? What do people in Ukraine call a peach?
My idea of a peach might be foggy. But I know it exists. I know I like it.
This is where I am at. I think we do know some things. But we definitely don't know every detail. We also all carry our own bias, even when thinking about a peach. The Egyptians may have called them beauty balls? Who is more correct? Lol
Anyway, I think you are correct on a higher level. We don't really see the picture of everything truly. But I think we know some basics and fundamentals.
I exist and the universe exists are some basics. But that is still a remarkable thing to know!
Interesting...
What do you think? #
Then you have solved perhaps the greatest problem of modern physics.
God lover
Member
LOL.
I don't know how it works. I know it exists. Even a squirrel knows if it jumps and misses the branch, it will fall to the ground.
I know things fall down. Even if I thought the world was flat and everything was being pulled in the same direction. I would be right to say I am being pulled towards the earth and away from the sky. I would be wrong to say one side of the universe is down and the other is up.
What do you think?
But the curvature of spacetime (the closest thing we have to a theory of gravitation) doesn't involve gravity. So our best explanation of why the squirrel will fall doesn't involve gravity and holds it to be non-existent. Meanwhile, in particle physics, we still don't have gravity but "particles" (in the non-particle sense of particle physics) we call "gravitons".
That thinking is a mistake I shouldn't make, and that I've been up for 24+ hours again because of this horrific cognitive process.
God lover
Member
Thank you for your reply.
Let's take gravity out of the list of examples. You are right.
Thank you for explaining yourself.
Enjoy some rest. Let the thoughts slow down. I have had the experience of sleeplessness and after 4 days without sleep I found myself at the hospital. They have some wonderful sedatives and it'll knock you out for 18 hrs! Just an option if you can't get the thoughts to slow down in the next few days. There are so many things we can do to slow down the mind as well. Turn off the screen. Stretch and relax. Focus on something physical like a candle or a baseball. Give up the ideas for now and it will all be here when you wake up. Let your brain cool down with some sleep. So many other ways. But let's take this up another time.
Sincerely,
Friend
"But I have promises to keep
And miles to go before I sleep
And miles to go before I sleep"
-Frost
God lover
Member
Haha. Well if you're working 2 jobs and getting your degree and balancing family and friends... good on ya mate
God lover
Member
I personally just have 1 job and family and this forum. Lol.Haha. Well if you're working 2 jobs and getting your degree and balancing family and friends... good on ya mate
NightDreamer
Follower of the Lightbringer
All of those comes from the assumption that you can trust your senses which can be deceived, this could all be hypnosis, schizophrenia, the matrix, etc.
It is.
God lover
Member
Okay I here you. We rely on our senses which can be deceived. "Can" be deceived isn't the same as continuously being deceived.
Yes my perceptions of a tree are based on the collection of constructs I have collected within my own personal experience, even if part of that is the collective knowledge of the people around and before me.
But it's a freaking tree man. Ask 10 people to stand around it and ask them if it is a tree. Unless, some annoying person is trying to sound smart.... they will all agree it's a tree.
I know I slept in bed last night and I know I have two legs. I know I don't know everything about biology and how exactly I walk... but I know I can walk run and jump.
So what do we call this kind of knowing? Is there a word that specifies things we know. Tautology? Willamena said that word. Is that what I'm getting at here
God lover
Member
Hey Willamena can you shed some light on this?
I tried to add you to thus quote... but I am still learning RF format... did you get this?
NightDreamer
Follower of the Lightbringer
Since everything COULD be fake therfore nothing is fact. Becuase nothing is fact everything is a beilief. A rational beliefs is based on something highly probable. An irrational one is based on something highly improbable or impossible.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
you might expand on this...just a bit.
What sort of light?
There are many ways in which "the senses can be deceived" can be interpreted, not all of them bad, and some of them even good (such as illusion). Adding things like delusion and hallucination to a discussion about senses just begs the question: if someone else has to tell you you're deluded, they've successfully avoided discussing the senses altogether.
It. And is.
Then nothing is fact, including the possibility that everything could be faked. If it's not possible that everything could be faked, why should I take it seriously?