Does male and female truly exist?

[Rainbow Mage]

Well do they? Does god see gender? Should we see gender when we associate with people? I because of my Gnostic and dharmic thought tend to see male and female as illusionary. They are real in the flesh, but not the spirit. I mean the pure spirit, like the cosmic force, which is within everything. My being gay reminds me all too well that male and female are real to the fleshly carnal mind. I never talk down to women though, I always speak like I'm speaking to a fellow spirit.

 

[Meow Mix]

I think male and female is only physical -- you're either born with an SRO gene (and therefore male) or you're not (and therefore female).

There are Xy females for instance since they don't have SRO gene, and XX males (with a spliced SRO gene).

I think there's enough evidence from people who feel that they're born into the wrong gender that the physicalities of the affair don't matter that much. If there's such a thing as a soul, which I doubt in any case, but if there is I doubt that it has a gender.

I'm female, and I'm attracted to females, but I wouldn't wish to be male. However I know a few people who wish their bodies reflected their mental genders which are the opposite of what their body depicts. I don't consider this evidence that there's an intrinsic gender for anyone but rather that we have the one that we are whether or not our bodies reflect it and that's what we are.

 

[KennethM]

Biological sex is something of a mystery as Meow Mix pointed out. At a genetic level there are a number of instances where people exhibit traits of both sexes. Gender on the other hand is a social construct, a set of roles placed on people based on their perceived biological sex.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is the physical sex, male and female, which is biologically based. Everything else is Dependant on external forces (such as gender roles, stereotypes, behavior, being a man or woman or whatever the given culture has.)

 

[Debunker]

Well do they? Does god see gender? Should we see gender when we associate with people? I because of my Gnostic and dharmic thought tend to see male and female as illusionary. They are real in the flesh, but not the spirit. I mean the pure spirit, like the cosmic force, which is within everything. My being gay reminds me all too well that male and female are real to the fleshly carnal mind. I never talk down to women though, I always speak like I'm speaking to a fellow spirit.

I see it like this. The normal person is born either male or female. There is no medical evidence that ordinary people are born in any other state, however, the number one principle of psychology quickly comes into play. The principle is that all behavior is learned. Since you are gay, you probably disagree with this.

Sadomasochism is also a learned behavior, Most people who have S & M tendencies refrain from acting on these tendencies and thereby stay off the screen of public scorn. They even learn to channel their sexual energies in different socially acceptable behavior. Urges and sexual drives can be channeled by learning. My statement is not a condemnation of gays. It is fine with me whatever lifestyle a person chooses as long as a person does not require me to believe it is a social requirement that I do so. I have a few friends that are gay but I choose not to associate much with them.

I do not relate well with their sexual orientation and do not know how to speak to them as a male or female. To me there is a difference. I wish everybody well in settling on their sexual orientation but I reserve that right also for myself. Would I vote, go to church, school, etc. with a gay person? Yes, I would. I can also respect a gay person but I disagree with the gay lifestyle.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the issue is in some ways very complex. In general, how one behaves, seems to very largely depend on some complex combination of biological, sociological, cultural, and psychological causes. But I believe gender can be thought of more simply in merely the biological -- or genetic -- factors that Meow Mix mentions.

 

[gnomon]

Well do they? Does god see gender? Should we see gender when we associate with people? I because of my Gnostic and dharmic thought tend to see male and female as illusionary. They are real in the flesh, but not the spirit. I mean the pure spirit, like the cosmic force, which is within everything. My being gay reminds me all too well that male and female are real to the fleshly carnal mind. I never talk down to women though, I always speak like I'm speaking to a fellow spirit.

In a biological context male and female do exist. The terms define the majority of human beings on the planet. However, like gender, there is a spectrum of human sexual development in which those not defined male or female are defined as intersex.

Check out this site, if you don't still have me on ignore, here.

Many people consider gender a social construct and some just use the term interchangeably with sex. I think it's quite obvious by now that sexual identity lies on a spectrum and we should probably consider the same for gender identity. Even the concept of a male and female brain is probably too simplistic that cannot adequately describe psychological development. I imagine that as neuroscientists learn more a greater acceptance of a wider range of sexual and gender identity will occur in the future.

There is no medical evidence that ordinary people are born in any other state, however, the number one principle of psychology quickly comes into play.

Actually, it is my opinion that medical science is moving away from corrective genital surgery on intersex individuals based on an absolute sexual dimorphism. To state that human beings absolutely adhere to a sexually dimorphic state and that any deviation exists as an abnormality is really an assumption.

 

[TJ73]

I agree and disagree, Emmi( can I call u that ?) I definately believe that there are defined sexes as well as many levels of ambiguous sexes, externally and internally. I also believe that gender no matter how defined, has significance in the behavior of individuals. Women and men, in general, have tendancies that are part and parcel with being, not identifying but being a member of that sex. Speaking in generalizations, women are inherently more nurturing, more verbally expressive and more sensitive to emotion. Men are more physical, even in emotional expression, less verbal and different in their reaction to emotions ( and I hate when people assume by emotion, crying is somehow the involved, I mean all emotions).
That being said, there are tremendous variations and although a lot is influence, I don't think the biological elements can be completely dismissed.
As a mother of 3 ( 2 girls and a boy) I observed some of the differences right away. I share this opinion with many mom's I've spoken with, girls will drive you up the wall, boys will need to be driven to the emergency room. Girls tend to talk and ask and explore through thought. Boys tend to explore the physical world a bit more, get into things, see if cats can be flushed and ceiling fans can hold 4 year olds.
It is not my vie that these are hard fast laws of gender, by any stretch. They each posses all these qualities with a leaning. And that makes sense as a means of species preservation. My daughters really liked dolls, but so did my son and played nicely with barbies, but differently.
I have heard many time before that people aren't inclined toward a certain gender type, but I really think most people do lean if they are of a more defined sex.

 

[Dan4reason]

The principle is that all behavior is learned.

Psychology does not say that. We do not do things simply because our society tells us to. We can challenge what we learn to do because of our emotions and our minds.

Our society looks upon homosexuals very negatively, but these people can go against everything they learned because of what they reason and because of the sexual attraction that they feel. You primarily have sex not primarily because that is what learning has told you to do, but because you have an instinct to do it. Homosexual sex is no different. Whether to make out with someone involves a choice based on sexual attraction but that attaction itself is not chosen, its instinct.


Here are some arguments about unlearned behavior.
AskPhilosophers.org
If all behaviour is learned doesn't that mean that sexual behaviour is a choice? - Yahoo! Answers

Psychology back in the 50's thought that only behavior because of learning mattered and there was no use talking about mental states. This idea which was very popular has been much revised. Today, even though there is a learned element to behavior, psychologists now accept that there are a neurological, emotional, and mental elements to behavior. Psychologists understand behavior not by only looking at the person's environment, but by looking at his/her brain. This issue is reflected in the nature vs. nurture debate. Most phsychologists that behavior is caused by a little of both.

 

[TJ73]

Behavior can be adapted, people can be trained and that is an aspect of living socially. But tendancies are a natural manifestation of human biology. I'm sorry but children that grow into homosexual adults know so from a very early age. Not necessarily that they associate their feelings in a sexual context but that their leanings are more like that of the opposite sex. An effeminate boy or a masculine girl may, also does not guarantee attraction to the same sex
It is so very complex and no one is raised in a bubble, but there are certainly people that are not entirely, biologically one perfect sex.

 

[Archer]

Well do they? Does god see gender? Should we see gender when we associate with people? I because of my Gnostic and dharmic thought tend to see male and female as illusionary. They are real in the flesh, but not the spirit. I mean the pure spirit, like the cosmic force, which is within everything. My being gay reminds me all too well that male and female are real to the fleshly carnal mind. I never talk down to women though, I always speak like I'm speaking to a fellow spirit.

Yes they do. If they did not you would not be gay. I do not mean you would not have your sexual preference as you do now I mean the word would not exist.

In almost every pair there will be a dominate member and many times this is the male and if you are in a relationship be it homo or hetero someone will generally be dominant and this can be seen as the traditional male gender roll.

As far as biological yes there is a difference and we all know that and because I am not homo I see it as a choice no matter what anyone says. If I were the other way I would say this is how I was made. Perhaps we are all born without gender and we choose what we will be unless something comes along that interferes with it.

There again what about guys who are on the "Down Low"? Are they the freaks and giving gays a bad rap because they only want sex?

 

[Twig pentagram]

Well do they? Does god see gender? Should we see gender when we associate with people? I because of my Gnostic and dharmic thought tend to see male and female as illusionary. They are real in the flesh, but not the spirit. I mean the pure spirit, like the cosmic force, which is within everything. My being gay reminds me all too well that male and female are real to the fleshly carnal mind. I never talk down to women though, I always speak like I'm speaking to a fellow spirit.

Yes, males and females exist.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Gender; exists like spin, where nothing is spinning.

Ever hear of the Big Bang? Well, scrap that. Picture a metronome; and all that happened in the beginning, is that it started. Tick-Tock; the sum of everything but the beating of the clock, and that is ho the universe counts: by the deuce.

We go: 1, 2, 3, 4... unless we're fringe, then we go 0, 1, 2, 3, 4... But the universe goes 2, 2, 2, 2, 2... and it's not quite a 1 + 1 kinda 2, it's a yin/yang kinda 2.

And it is a function of conservation, gender. Take this bucket, and that ocean; how many buckets does it take to empty the sea? Well, two. I fill this bucket; and divide the seas into what I can hold, and everything else. And that's a manly concept - what I can hold - what I can utilize - what I can conquer. And the shape of these patterns overlay in such a manner that functions of a feather flock together. Particle and wave, artist and agent, media and immediate...

Well, it's that or the multiverse; and there's just something - unappealing to my mind, all these extraneous universes just to fill our own. Think of it this way (and I'm a guy named ellen), will I ever understand the female drive? Hell, no! The hope of the universe! That I know not woman, the unknown is knowable. How so? Consider: thirteen point seven billion years of particle/wave interaction and action; quark-gluon plasma to gravitational dust, to star upon star upon star - three generations - to produce the essence of our essence... and how quickly do we undo all that has been done?

What's beyond the universe? What is before the Big Bang?

Nieman Marcus?

Exactly.

 

[Meow Mix]

Yes they do. If they did not you would not be gay. I do not mean you would not have your sexual preference as you do now I mean the word would not exist.

In almost every pair there will be a dominate member and many times this is the male and if you are in a relationship be it homo or hetero someone will generally be dominant and this can be seen as the traditional male gender roll.

As far as biological yes there is a difference and we all know that and because I am not homo I see it as a choice no matter what anyone says. If I were the other way I would say this is how I was made. Perhaps we are all born without gender and we choose what we will be unless something comes along that interferes with it.

There again what about guys who are on the "Down Low"? Are they the freaks and giving gays a bad rap because they only want sex?

I think the concept of a dominant-submissive partner is also culturally instilled. There is no dominant or submissive partner in my relationship in general, and even in the bedroom it's only fleeting as play and neither role is used by either more often than the other. Furthermore, none of this was due to us sitting down and deciding it would be that way, we just naturally have a working relationship without power heirarchies that many relationships seem to work on. I actually prefer it this way.

 

[kylixguru]

Well do they? Does god see gender? Should we see gender when we associate with people? I because of my Gnostic and dharmic thought tend to see male and female as illusionary. They are real in the flesh, but not the spirit. I mean the pure spirit, like the cosmic force, which is within everything. My being gay reminds me all too well that male and female are real to the fleshly carnal mind. I never talk down to women though, I always speak like I'm speaking to a fellow spirit.

While I am physiologically a male, I consider myself both feminine and masculine. I believe all human beings should cultivate both feminine and masculine properties within themselves. In my personal case, I view my Christian paradigm as giving me a context in which to develop my feminine qualities. I do this by fully devoting myself to Christ and His Gospel. I am His helpmeet and companion and I assist Him with rearing up spiritual offspring into His Family, etc. Thus, as I am feminine to my Lord, I am in a context that allows me to receive my wife as she exhibits her femininity to me, which gives me the opportunity to transfer the masculenity of my Lord to her. My wife becomes my helpmeet and companion to rear up physical offspring into my family. As she is feminine to me and my Lord she can then develop her masculinity in rearing up and training the children. Thus, my wife and I are able to fully develop both our feminine and masculine qualities. We also have the pleasure of a completely fluid, blissful, zero conflict marriage with nobody feeling taken for granted or forced.

So, I agree, when God looks at each of us he sees us having both masculine and feminine attributes. And, the Gospel Plan He provides gives us all opportunity to develop both in a way that gives our societal body vitality and longevity.

 

[Archer]

I think the concept of a dominant-submissive partner is also culturally instilled. There is no dominant or submissive partner in my relationship in general, and even in the bedroom it's only fleeting as play and neither role is used by either more often than the other. Furthermore, none of this was due to us sitting down and deciding it would be that way, we just naturally have a working relationship without power heirarchies that many relationships seem to work on. I actually prefer it this way.

Probably so. Societal norms sometimes push people into a mold. It sounds like you have a healthy relationship.

In my home there is an order but it fluxes as to who is more suited for what. My wife is ,for lack of a better term, dominant in the finance realm. Sure I can do it without much problem but she has been st it for years and it is what she does for a living. We will have our disagreements and I will tell her how it is going to be and that is final! She then tells me I am wrong and I say yes mam When it comes to the computers and everything mechanical I am the authority. I think the only real issue we have is cooking.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

People are generally flexible and there exists a broad spectrum regarding all aspects of humanity, but I'd say, generally speaking, there a typical differences between male and female, both physically and psychologically/behaviorally. Hormones are one of the most influential factors regarding our behavior, and the hormonal make-up of men and women is generally different and consistent. It's certainly easy to say that our gender "roles" are taught to us by society, but it seems more basic to me to look at the generic gender roles of society as being a result of our biology.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I see it like this. The normal person is born either male or female. There is no medical evidence that ordinary people are born in any other state, however, the number one principle of psychology quickly comes into play. The principle is that all behavior is learned. Since you are gay, you probably disagree with this.

People are also born intersexed, and have signs of both male and female genitals. As for learned behavior, there are many other schools of thought other than the behaviorist approach. After all you did not need to observe someone sucking their thumb to learn how to do so yourself. Nor did you learn to cry. You did not learn to have sexual urges, and you did not learn your sexual orientation. And there are so many more examples of behaviors that are not learned that to be purely behavioral is to face harsh criticism in the field of psychology.

It's certainly easy to say that our gender "roles" are taught to us by society, but it seems more basic to me to look at the generic gender roles of society as being a result of our biology.

Gender roles are based in society. We typically do find men in more positions that require physical strength, such as being a hunter or warrior, but if you look at today it is changing and we are finding more women in traditional male roles and more men in traditional female roles.

 

[Archer]

People are also born intersexed, and have signs of both male and female genitals.

And the thing about this is they are almost always made into little girls. I would like to hear from someone who was born like this and stayed that way. It would be interesting to hear their views and how they integrate into society.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And the thing about this is they are almost always made into little girls. I would like to hear from someone who was born like this and stayed that way. It would be interesting to hear their views and how they integrate into society.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but most of them display tomboyish behavior as children, and the amount who partake in male activities and/or identify as male begins to dwindle as the age groups get older, but many of them are not happy as women. There are even movements in the inter sexed community to not allow for sex reassignment surgery until the individual is old enough to make that decision on their own.
They are generally made into girls because creating a vagina is easier and looks better than a penis. However it is well known that gender identity lies within the brain, not between the legs.