Does Paul Rub You the Wrong Way

[Ponder This]

What is it about his teachings that causes you disharmony?

Paul's teachings?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

What is it about his teachings that causes you disharmony?

Paul took two halfway reasonable religion, Judaism, and Jewish Christianity, and added evil when he combined the latter with pagan Mithraism, and added this bit of pure evil as its core tenent:

But didn’t he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn’t be free—but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God’s wrath. --- Romans 4:4 (Living)

You could, for all intents and purposes, call this spiritual welfare.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Paul's teachings?

Yes, Paul's teachings.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

and added evil when he combined the latter with pagan Mithraism...

Can you give an example of this?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

If the Christian faith was based solely on the teachings of Christ without the influence of the NT letters, I doubt there would be so many different denominations. I think it was @Hockeycowboy that made the point that there was some 30,000 different Christian denominations. Most of those differences are based on interpretations of Pauls teachings whereas (to me anyway) the teachings of Jesus were much clearer. I think that without the writings of Paul (which BTW, Paul was writing letters not scripture), Christianity would be much clearer and simpler. IMHO of course.

I can follow this. 2000 years later I'm sure the simplicity of Christ Jesus would be just as convoluted with or without Paul.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

. . . which people? There are millions of people through many cultures through out humanityI consider salvation to be universal throughout the history of humanity, and each culture has its own criteria on what is 'salvation,' which is a a contradiction of vast proportions. The Christian view is the most paradoxical of a sacrifice required for salvation. Sacrifices to appease God or God(s) is an ancient human view of God, and presents contracdictions of the relationship between humanity and God.

What would those contradictions be?

 

[shunyadragon]

What would those contradictions be?

The first contradictions are with the nature of the belief in God and the nature of salvation. The worst is between Judaism and Christianity.

I like @ThePainefulTruth response.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, Jesus brought salvation to humanity by the renewal and reaffirmation of the Word of God through his life and message to humanity.

I do not believe in the expiation by blood sacrifice by Christ for salvation.

How is God appeased then? Or do you see that He needs to be?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The first contradictions are with the nature of the belief in God and the nature of salvation. The worst is between Judaism and Christianity.

What is the nature of the natures of the belief in God and salvation that is contradictory?

 

[shunyadragon]

How is God appeased then? Or do you see that He needs to be?

God does need to be appeased. This an ancient primitive Neolithic/Bronze Age anthropomorpjic belief of God(s).

The vain attempt to appease God is a contradiction with the an omnipotent omnipresent God.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

God does need to be appeased. This an ancient primitive Neolithic/Bronze Age anthropomorpjic belief of God(s).

The vain attempt to appease God is a contradiction with the an omnipotent omnipresent God.

What was the purpose of OT sacrifices.

 

[shunyadragon]

What is the nature of the natures of the belief in God and salvation that is contradictory?

Monotheism versus Tritheism, role of original sin in the beliefs. The nature of dualism of good and evil in traditional Christianity is foreign to Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith.

Also the problem of Jesus Christ being an incarnate Son of God, which in contradiction with Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. The concept of incarnate Gods is more in line with Greek and Roman pagan Gods.

 

[shunyadragon]

What was the purpose of OT sacrifices.

No purpose as far as an omnipotent God is concerned. A Neolithic pagan influence,

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No purpose as far as an omnipotent God is concerned. A Neolithic pagan influence,

It seems to me that you might follow about what, 5 pages of the Bible including the cover page?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Monotheism versus Tritheism, role of original sin in the beliefs. The nature of dualism of good and evil in traditional Christianity is foreign to Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith.

Also the problem of Jesus Christ being an incarnate Son of God, which in contradiction with Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. The concept of incarnate Gods is more in line with Greek and Roman pagan Gods.

I'm really unsure how the concept of good and evil isn't in the OT.

 

[shunyadragon]

It seems to me that you might follow about what, 5 pages of the Bible including the cover page?

As far as the Book of Genesis goes it is mainly a composite of older Canaanite, Ugarit pagan Neolithic oral traditions that evolved into written in cuneiform written records and morphed into Hebrew beliefs and traditions compiled and edited after about ~800-600 BCE. The Hebrew tribe was originally a Canaanite pastoral tribe that evolved from a pagan henotheistic religion to a monotheistic religion. Like almost all ancient cultures which evolved from an animistic, polytheistic and henotheistic religion and from human and animal sacrifice to symbolic metaphysical spiritual forms of sacrifice.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm really unsure how the concept of good and evil isn't in the OT.

Jewish theologians today that know the Hebrew scripture very well do not believe in the Christian view of the dualism of good and evil, neither do I. As per my belief humanity physically and spiritually evolves, and ancient primitive beliefs pass away as we mature.

I believe the dominant view in Judaism today, as well as the belief in Islam and the Baha'i Faith that the concept of evil is human disobedience and rebellion against God.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Can you give an example of this?

???, I did, the Romans 4:4 passage.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

???, I did, the Romans 4:4 passage.

I'm dense. Perhaps you could explain it.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I'm dense. Perhaps you could explain it.

Resigning myself to the likelihood that I'm probably being played, what part of, "you don't have to try to be good to go to heaven", is too dense to understand? Repentance isn't even necessary according to Paul, only faith in Jesus--which Jesus and John the Baptist would dispute. Paul is a good socialist, he just makes stuff up, to wit:

Then there's the revelation from Jesus about the "Lord's Supper". What need had he of that? Hadn't Jesus already told the disciples, and they the church? The ancient Didache, the disciples handbook, has no mention of bread and wine being Jesus' body and blood, which Paul instituted via his "revelation". But Paul needed to meld it with the same pagan (cannibalim = Lord's Supper) rite practiced in Mithraism.