Some Catholics, sure. Those types are found in all groups. It's a human problem.
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Does Religion Deserve Respect by Default?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Oh, sorry then.
I'm not saying that popular Christian culture doesn't deserve much of its criticisms, it does. But the endless slew of simplistic, uninformed anti-religion on the internet gets tiresome. It's like they're trying to convince themselves under the pretence of trying to have me see the light of logical positivism.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
But you have all the ugliness of religion publically hating gays, and everything else that they don't like........as I said it works both ways.
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The clergy kills kittens, Tlaloc. Kittens, Tlaloc!
Skwim
Veteran Member
Reminds me of my sister-in-law who complains there are too many commercials on TV. Of course, it would help if she took a break from the tube every four hours or so.
I've been working from the inside trying to reform the religion of its kitten killing. But I'm only one man!
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Respect is given where it is earned, at least with me.
Everyone has a default amount of respect for things, put it on a 0-100 scale.
However, saying something/someone deserves a set amount of respect by default is somewhat idiotic, to me.
Everyone has a default amount of respect for things, put it on a 0-100 scale.
However, saying something/someone deserves a set amount of respect by default is somewhat idiotic, to me.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I broadly agree. I certainly don't think religion should get a free pass when it comes to examining beliefs, ideas and behaviour.
Yeah. I have just read it. I hope others will also.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Religion does not inherently deserve respect - the same way football teams, political parties or other meme-plexes don't inherently deserve respect. Peoples' right to religious belief should be respected as long as said beliefs aren't used to infringe other peoples' rights.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
In life, most things and people deserve respect by default .When we walk down the street and accidentally bump into someone, we say sorry, or at the very least should say sorry. That stranger has not benefited us in anyway, not that we know anyway but we still show him/her a little bit of respect. That is the basis of civilised society.
By the same token, the belief system of any individual deserves respect, unless we know for sure that this belief system is wrong, in the way that it requires laws to be broken or preaches relentless violence against the innocent and the weak. If that is not the case, I don't care if someone is a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Athiest etc etc etc, if I meet them, I will respect them and their beliefs by default.
I don't believe this should even be a debate. We are taught to respect as early as primary, why is it as adults we believe that somehow we know better than everyone else and for that matter we can disrespect them.
Town Heretic
Temporarily out of order
So...he has a problem with undemonstrable assertion/assumption in foundation and makes, as an objection, an assumptive assertion?
I think we have to respect the right of people to their own conscience, so long as the exercise of that conscience doesn't impinge on our right to be similarly situated. And I respect a well-considered position, agree or disagree with its conclusion. Many, even most contextual choices have intellectually sustainable oppositional contexts. That's life. I suppose I'd call Silverman a doofus for looking like the stereotype he's objecting to and suggest that if rationalism is going to be his meat (after a fashion) he might want to chew on it a bit more before spitting it out at the rest of us.
McBell
Unbound
you demonstrate your post so well....
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I'm not sure this is entirely what is meant by respect in this context. What you are talking about is basic human tolerance which is respect for people, whereas the quote specifically refers to respect for religion. One can have respect for people without having respect for religion, just as a person may respect an individual's right to believe whatever they wish even if they don't respect the belief itself. I think respect in this context basically means a form of reverential or deferential treatment towards a particular individual or group. For instance, I would say I respect my friends in that I care about their feelings and rights, and would not infringe upon either. However, I do not necessarily respect their views in the same way in that I am unwilling to criticise or question them for fear of personally upsetting them.
To use your example, say you had a close friend who you greatly respected, but that friend suddenly expressed a belief that you knew was wrong, or found morally unacceptable. Would you simply stop respecting them as a person, or would you respect them but not their belief?
There is a general tendency, not merely amongst the religious but also among a large proportion of secular society, to treat religious beliefs with "kid's gloves". It is permitted (in fact, encouraged) in many societies to criticise, question and even outright mock any beliefs along political, philosophical or personal grounds, but as soon as any of those beliefs are cradled with the qualifier of "religious" many people feel it is suddenly inappropriate, if not outright rude, to merely question or critique them. Largely this is because religious beliefs tend to be very personal to the holder, and they thus some may find it difficult to separate an attack on their religious view to an attack on them, personally. But, if anything, this makes religion all the more worth questioning and criticising, because we owe it to ourselves to make sure that our most deeply held and personal beliefs are as accurate and sound as possible, and as soon as something becomes too personal a belief to be able to question it you lose the ability to change or adjust that belief in accordance with reality.
In this regard, I agree with the quote. Individuals deserve respect, and everyone has the right to their belief, but beliefs themselves do not have those same rights, and simply do not earn the level of respect and deference people give to them.
Excuse me? How exactly am I an ignorant, arrogant moron? Did I spew hatred and stupidity against vast swaths of humanity and the human experience? No. I don't appreciate your insult.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
I'll stop you there, as respecting an individual is the same as respecting their beliefs, as is the same as respecting someones colour and nationality or even profession. You know for a fact disrespecting someones religion will offend them and hurt them and anger, the same way as disrespecting someones race, nationality, profession, family etc. These things are not mutually exclusive.
A person is not some abstract beings, they are complex physical beings with many different likes and dislikes. Disrespecting them can be done in a variety of different ways. It's as simple as that.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
What do you mean by respect in this context? I believe I explained it as giving it deferential treatment. For example, when somebody expressed a belief I disagree with, or find wrong, I question or criticise that belief. Some people believe that that doing so to a religious belief is disrespectful to that belief, as if the mere act of questioning is somehow a breach of the defence I should hold for that particular position. However, people never seem to do this with political beliefs, regardless of how sincerely they are held. I have never heard anyone say "You shouldn't disrespect that person's political belief because it will offend them". Yet religion is granted this exception. Why?
I'm not certain you read the majority of my post. I explained in very clear terms the difference between respecting an individual and respecting a belief, and what respecting either means in its individual context. Tell me, does "respect" to you mean not being able to criticise or mock? If so, do you believe political satire is wrong? Are political cartoons to be considered disrespectful towards individuals?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I agree. Sadly some religions seem to delight in infringing.