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Does Religion Deserve Respect by Default?

Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Shad said:
Which are still ideas. Ideas how to conduct yourself, idea about how many hail Mary's one should do, idea about which is important or unimportant, etc. Hence why I said collection of ideas. Idea put into actions are no less ideas, just that those doing the act accept the idea has merit, works or is useful
Click to expand...
Behaviors = ideas? Nope, they don't. Face it, you're simply wrong.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Skwim said:
Behaviors = ideas? Nope, they don't. Face it, you're simply wrong.
Click to expand...

Religions have sets of ideas regarding what is considered, thought of, as proper behavior. Proper behavior itself is an idea which is different from instinct driven behavior. Still not wrong as you shifted behavior from a religious perspective to a generalization
 
Unification

Unification

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
The question is prompted by a remark atheist David Silverman made in an article on his book Fighting God. The article quotes him as saying:

“Some … people call me a (jerk) because I challenge the absurd notion that religion deserves respect by default. But religion is wrong for demanding respect simply for being, and even more wrong for demanding never to be questioned."
source​

What do you think? Think he has a reasonable point? ,,,,Why, why not?


.
Click to expand...

Human beings should be respected. Many abstract ideologies should not be respected.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Shad said:
Religions have sets of ideas regarding what is considered, thought of, as proper behavior. Proper behavior itself is an idea which is different from instinct driven behavior. Still not wrong as you shifted behavior from a religious perspective to a generalization
Click to expand...
Nope. You're still wrong. Obviously you have little or no clue as to the difference between belief and behavior. Let me help you.

Belief:

1) An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:

2) Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:

3) A religious conviction:

Source: Oxford English Dictionary​

Please note that "acceptance," "accept," "firmly held" (in this sense), and "conviction" are all mental activities of certitude. These are activities that only take place in the brain.

Behavior:
1) The way in which one acts or conducts oneself, especially toward others:

2) The way in which an animal or person acts in response to a particular situation or stimulus

3) The way in which a natural phenomenon or a machine works or functions:

Source: Oxford English Dictionary
​
Please note that "acts," "conducts," "works," and "functions" are principally physical activities. These are activities that almost always take place outside the brain. (prayer is one exception)

If you have difficulty remembering the difference maybe this will help. Make the associations belief - brain and behavior - beheading.


.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Skwim said:
Nope. You're still wrong. Obviously you have little or no clue as to the difference between belief and behavior. Let me help you.

Belief:

1) An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:

2) Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:

3) A religious conviction:

Source: Oxford English Dictionary​

Please note that "acceptance," "accept," "firmly held" (in this sense), and "conviction" are all mental activities of certitude. These are activities that only take place in the brain.

Behavior:
1) The way in which one acts or conducts oneself, especially toward others:

2) The way in which an animal or person acts in response to a particular situation or stimulus

3) The way in which a natural phenomenon or a machine works or functions:

Source: Oxford English Dictionary
​
Please note that "acts," "conducts," "works," and "functions" are principally physical activities. These are activities that almost always take place outside the brain. (prayer is one exception)

If you have difficulty remembering the difference maybe this will help. Make the associations belief - brain and behavior - beheading.


.
Click to expand...

No since the context of behavior is within a religious context in which religion dictate how it's followers should act/behave as opposed to how they should no act/behave. Proper behavior is an idea reinforce by other ideas such are morals, commandments, etc. You removed the context of religion in your dictionary definition thus your point is irrelevant.
 
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Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Skwim said:
The question is prompted by a remark atheist David Silverman made in an article on his book Fighting God. The article quotes him as saying:

“Some … people call me a (jerk) because I challenge the absurd notion that religion deserves respect by default. But religion is wrong for demanding respect simply for being, and even more wrong for demanding never to be questioned."
source​

What do you think? Think he has a reasonable point? ,,,,Why, why not?.
Click to expand...
Religion doesn't, but people do. And people do religion.
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Shad said:
Which are still ideas. Ideas how to conduct yourself, idea about how many hail Mary's one should do, idea about which is important or unimportant, etc. Hence why I said collection of ideas. Idea put into actions are no less ideas, just that those doing the act accept the idea has merit, works or is useful
Click to expand...
By that logic, you can simply call ANYTHING nothing but a collection of ideas. Medicine is just ideas about how to treat a disease. Sports is just ideas about how to physically excel in a particular field. War is just ideas about gathering an army and fighting another army.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Shad said:
No since the context of behavior is within a religious context in which religion dictate how it's followers should act/behave as opposed to how they should no act/behave. Proper behavior is an idea reinforce by other ideas such are morals, commandments, etc. You removed the context of religion in your dictionary definition thus your point is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Obviously you have dire needs that demand preservation, so go ahead and believe whatever floats your faith. When you start making sense maybe we will have a fruitful discussion.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
ImmortalFlame said:
By that logic, you can simply call ANYTHING nothing but a collection of ideas. Medicine is just ideas about how to treat a disease. Sports is just ideas about how to physically excel in a particular field. War is just ideas about gathering an army and fighting another army.
Click to expand...

I specific am talking about the dictates of religion regarding proper behavior as opposed to instinct based behavior in which there is no proper or improper behavior nor the evaluation of what one should or should not do within a social and religious construct. Medicine are sets of ideas regarding treatment of disease. However just like proper behavior the idea regarding a specific treatment can be communicated, tested, and evaluated. Proper behavior which is commonly accept by society is reinforce/reward, improper behavior is rejected thus punished. You are confusing the act with the evaluation of the act as proper or not.

Skwim said:
Obviously you have dire needs that demand preservation, so go ahead and believe whatever floats your faith. When you start making sense maybe we will have a fruitful discussion.
Click to expand...

No. I merely pointed out you ignored the context of proper behavior by using a definition which did not include the very context of the OP nor was it even the definition of proper behavior as a social/religious construct created by an entity or group of be it God or man. It's not a faith it is understanding what context and how religious ideas of proper behavior exist. The same can be applied to social constructs which do not use a religious basis. Like above you confuse the evaluation of the act as proper or not.
 
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Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I finally figured out an answer to the titular question......
No religion deserves my respect, but some believers deserve tolerance.

Note:
I don't include atheistic flavors of Buddhism in "religion".
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I always assume that "respect" comes with a sort of ebb and flow "by default". That, basically, you can earn respect and lose it also. Not everyone I have met has respected me, not everyone I meet do I respect. As you get to know more about a person you may respect them more, or perhaps less. It is the same with religions. I think a religion should be given the benefit of the doubt upon first "meeting" it - but by no means does respect have to remain "by default".

However - opinions of people I tend to hold personal to myself. I do not tell the people outright whom I do not respect that I don't respect them. Perhaps it is easier to do so with religion because it isn't "a person"? I'm not sure. I know I have displayed my disrespect for certain people's beliefs, but again, I don't do so when it is a person who I do not respect for whatever reason.
 
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