Does religion impair vital critical thinking skills?

[Cephus]

It's the belief in the supernatural that to me is the critical factor. If someone holds a religion that needs no belief in the supernatural, then the OP doesn't apply to that person. I'd say that strictly speaking, the belief in the supernatural is independent of (I was going to say "orthogonal to", but didn't want to be label an elitist ), but often occurring with, religious or spiritual beliefs.

Now it might just be me, but I don't consider anyone who has no belief in the supernatural to be religious. Religion, at least from where I'm sitting, requires beliefs in the supernatural. Many Buddhists, for example, who have no supernatural beliefs do not have a religion, they have a philosophy.

 

[George-ananda]

It's the belief in the supernatural that to me is the critical factor. If someone holds a religion that needs no belief in the supernatural, then the OP doesn't apply to that person. I'd say that strictly speaking, the belief in the supernatural is independent of (I was going to say "orthogonal to", but didn't want to be label an elitist ), but often occurring with, religious or spiritual beliefs.

I believe in what you would call 'supernatural'. It comes from my critically thinking analysis of a whole body of paranormal evidence accumulated in the last 150 years of parapsychological research. And my critical thinking led me to see the ancient wisdom traditions of the east provide the most reasonable explanations I have heard (including materialism).

The idea that people that disagree with materialism are not using the same level of critical thinking as materialists is rather chauvinistic (and can't be justified by critical thinking).

 

[George-ananda]

A person could be rational, intelligent, critical and logical about 99.9999% of the things in their lives, but when it comes to religion, throw all of that out the window.

I agree that that's possible. But, because they can throw reason out the window doesn't mean that they all are throwing reason out the window. Their beliefs can be based on reason.

That doesn't make their religious beliefs rational, intelligent, critical or logical. Blind faith, by definition, can be none of those things.

I agree critically thinking people require more than blind faith. And many have found that 'more'.

 

[Thana]

What I think the world needs now is for people to be better educated and have better critical thinking skills. Populations that can think critically are harder to manipulate and control by oppressive leaders. Populations that can think critically are harder for big business and corrupt politicians* to hoodwink. Better educated people will make better choices in regards to being good stewards of the planet. And so on.

Cognitive scientists have learned that all cognitive activity uses the same supply of glucose. Everything you do with your brain, drains the same "fuel tank". Even something as simple as exercising willpower uses brain glucose.

As an anti-theist, I see the mental energy the "faithful" put into keeping their religion plausible. I have to think that religion overall (even moderate religion), works in opposition to increasing critical thinking.

Perhaps religion does have some benefits (I'm not convinced), but whatever benefits religion might claim, it strikes me that these benefits could be provided without the need for cognitively draining, supernatural explanations that fly in the face of an otherwise honest view of the world.

Is it really critical thinking to make a baseless claim that has no scientific evidence to support it?
You're saying Theists can't critically think like Atheists. You have no evidence of this, Your only supporting argument is your own bias!

To then say we're the ones with the problem is just laughable.

 

[icehorse]

Is it really critical thinking to make a baseless claim that has no scientific evidence to support it?
You're saying Theists can't critically think like Atheists. You have no evidence of this, Your only supporting argument is your own bias!

To then say we're the ones with the problem is just laughable.

Nope, I'm not saying any such thing.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why not? All woo beliefs, by their very existence, oppose critical thinking. Anyone who believes something, religious or otherwise, without good, objective reasons to do so is acting uncritically and irrationally. Just because people say "I can believe what I want!" is just childish.

I don't know what exactly is a "woo belief", but it probably comes down to what you call a religion.

 

[Storm]

Why not? All woo beliefs, by their very existence, oppose critical thinking. Anyone who believes something, religious or otherwise, without good, objective reasons to do so is acting uncritically and irrationally. Just because people say "I can believe what I want!" is just childish.

Oh, bull.

Humans are messy, subjective creatures, and the vast majority of being one doesn't fit in a lab. If people DIDN'T believe anything "without good, objective reasons to do so," we never would have developed language. There's no rational basis whatsoever that some random combination of mouth sounds means anything at all.

Good thing we're not purely rational, yeah? Well, maybe not for the planet....

 

[Greatest I am]

There is no argument that religion adversely effects thinking.

Many believers develop a double standard of morals where they condemn people for the same infraction that they forgive their God for doing.

In Christianity, the story of Job and the story of the Exodus where Pharaoh's heart is hardened are two good examples of this double standard of morality.

 

[Thana]

Nope, I'm not saying any such thing.

Orly?

I have to think that religion overall (even moderate religion), works in opposition to increasing critical thinking.

In any case - I'm happy to make that qualification, it was the belief in the supernatural that I was claiming adversely affects critical thinking.

I don't know why you'd bother to deny it anyway, You're an Anti-Theist, Stick to your guns at the very least.

 

[icehorse]

greatest - cleverly written, I can take that whole post one of several ways!

 

[Storm]

I don't know why you'd bother to deny it anyway, You're an Anti-Theist, Stick to your guns at the very least.

Or perhaps s/he simply lacks patience with people who try to impose entire worldviews upon hir rather than attempt to share ideas.

 

[icehorse]

Orly?

I never said theists can't think critically like atheists, and I don't believe it.

I don't know why you'd bother to deny it anyway, You're an Anti-Theist, Stick to your guns at the very least.

As a courtesy, I'll repeat a bit of the OP: "As an anti-theist, I see the mental energy the "faithful" put into keeping their religion plausible. I have to think that religion overall (even moderate religion), works in opposition to increasing critical thinking."

Nothing at all as crude as what you're implying.

 

[icehorse]

Or perhaps s/he simply lacks patience with people who try to impose entire worldviews upon hir rather than attempt to share ideas.

Entire worldviews? Give me a break. This is nothing more than an incremental suggestion based on a pretty easy extrapolation of some recent brain research.

 

[Storm]

What does anti-theism mean to you, @icehorse ?

 

[Thana]

I never said theists can't think critically like atheists, and I don't believe it.

As a courtesy, I'll repeat a bit of the OP: "As an anti-theist, I see the mental energy the "faithful" put into keeping their religion plausible. I have to think that religion overall (even moderate religion), works in opposition to increasing critical thinking."

Nothing at all as crude as what you're implying.

I gave your words back to you without all the fluff, Regardless, It's still what you meant so I don't see why you want to sugar coat it. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

If religion works in opposition to critical thinking, Then what does that mean for the people who practice it and the people who don't?
It means exactly what I said. Let's not beat around the bush.

 

[Storm]

Entire worldviews? Give me a break. This is nothing more than an incremental suggestion based on a pretty easy extrapolation of some recent brain research.

I meant you. You don't appreciate it.

I was reminded of my uncle demanding that I defend excerpts from the Communist Manifesto despite the fact that I kept telling him I am no and have never been a Communist.

EDIT: @icehorse
And I don't know what "this... suggestion" is even referring to. I've been gone for over a year, and that particular conversation thread didn't seem worth catching up on. I've got quite a lot of that to do, you see.

 

[icehorse]

storm - To me an anti-theist is a person who believes that believing in a god is detrimental. Based on that definition, I am an anti-theist. Let's be clear though, I have great regard for spirituality.

Thana, I'm trying to make a subtle point and it seems to me you're trying to make something simpler than it is. For example, I know full well that many good scientists are religious. But it turns out that only 7% of the members of the National Academy of Science are "believers".

This is an interesting article: Relationship between religion and science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Storm]

storm - To me an anti-theist is a person who believes that believing in a god is detrimental.

Alright.
Detrimental in what way(s), and what's the foundation of this opinion?

 

[icehorse]

Alright.
Detrimental in what way(s), and what's the foundation of this opinion?

You can certainly find exceptions to any of the following, but in general:

1 - Religious belief tends to be stagnant. It doesn't keep up with the modern world. We can't go back in time, we have 7 billion people, not many resources, and horrible weapons. Religious doctrines were mostly designed for much different times. It's no longer a good idea for humans to continue pursuing a population explosion - this was a good idea for the survival of the species a couple of thousand years ago - now it's one of the most dangerous ideas going.
2 - Religious beliefs tend to be intolerant of women and minorities.
3 - Religious beliefs tend to establish "us vs. them" mentalities, and again, our weaponry has become for too powerful for us to sustain "us vs. them" thinking moving forward.

Many more reasons, but my guess is your counter will be the same...

 

[Storm]

You can certainly find exceptions to any of the following, but in general:

1 - Religious belief tends to be stagnant. It doesn't keep up with the modern world. We can't go back in time, we have 7 billion people, not many resources, and horrible weapons. Religious doctrines were mostly designed for much different times. It's no longer a good idea for humans to continue pursuing a population explosion - this was a good idea for the survival of the species a couple of thousand years ago - now it's one of the most dangerous ideas going.
2 - Religious beliefs tend to be intolerant of women and minorities.
3 - Religious beliefs tend to establish "us vs. them" mentalities, and again, our weaponry has become for too powerful for us to sustain "us vs. them" thinking moving forward.

Many more reasons, but my guess is your counter will be the same...

I haven't caught up, but I doubt it.

You're painting with an overly broad brush. [ETA: Actually, no. It's not overly broad, it's the wrong brush altogether.] All this is true of what I call pop fundamentalism. That said, the fact of the matter is that while such beliefs are depressingly common among believers, when you compare actual beliefs (your chosen category), pop fundamentalism isn't just the exception, it's an aberration.

As I said in my initial post, religion doesn't impair critical thinking, certain religious sects do.

It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but stop and consider. Religion is a category of practices founded upon a category of ideas without a single universal concept - not even the existence of a God of any concept. You say you have respect for spirituality, and I take you at your word. But religion is simply communal expression of spirituality - until it's twisted by leader(s) to enforce conformity.

Which is tragically common, I'll grant you. But it's not the fault of religion or faith.

I've got a whole rant ready regarding point 3 that I think might offer you a new perspective, but I'll wait for your thoughts on this.