Does religion impair vital critical thinking skills?

[Ultimatum]

I agree with everything you say above. But intelligent and critically thinking religious and spiritual believers don't do that.

I need to be careful with my words here, but what do you mean by being intelligent? That your general knowledge is good? That you are good at your job?
In my book, it means having a good understanding (on whatever subject is being discussed). And I personally think that we should all be taught in school how evolution works and what many stages organisms had to go through until we come to the Hominids: this would be having a good understanding on our origins.
To be brainwashed by a book which implies any Intelligent Design (because most religious people believe in an Intelligent Design) and accept that as that, is not intelligent. It is not critical thinking.
It is a brainwash, and a lazy way at looking at things.

 

[Ultimatum]

Is it really critical thinking to make a baseless claim that has no scientific evidence to support it?
You're saying Theists can't critically think like Atheists. You have no evidence of this, Your only supporting argument is your own bias!

To then say we're the ones with the problem is just laughable.

Oh no, I'm being persecuted again!

You're missing the point, unfortunately.
The point is that religion can impair critical thinking. This is a fact for most religious people.

 

[Storm]

I need to be careful with my words here, but what do you mean by being intelligent?

I don't presume to speak for George, but when I say it, I mean thoughtful, open to new information, and willing to admit when things don't add up. IOW, a believer who applies critical thought.

To be brainwashed by a book which implies any Intelligent Design (because most religious people believe in an Intelligent Design) and accept that as that, is not intelligent. It is not critical thinking.
It is a brainwash, and a lazy way at looking at things.

*sigh*

No. Most don't.

 

[Thana]

Ok Thana,

Let's go with your 51%, take a bow. (Although that figure is still well below the general population.)

Let's take the teaching of biology in US high schools. Something like 1/3 of teachers have decided to avoid teaching evolution at all. Not because they disagree, but because it's not worth the hassle of dealing with religious parents. I live in the US, I'd like us to stay strong as a nation. If we have to warp the teaching of science to the will of the religious we've got a huge problem.

We've strayed a bit from the OP, but maybe not too far. In the case of teaching evolution, we see large numbers of adults turning off their critical thinking skills - refusing mountains of evidence - because scripture tells them that the earth is 6000 years old - or whatever. What other explanation is there for this phenomenon?

How about stem cell research. It's severely limited in the US because of religious pressure. This research stands to alleviate endless suffering, but it's restricted, again, not because of evidence or critical thinking, but because of some scriptural interpretation.

There are many more similar examples...

Right, Because you cannot imagine a world where a human being would be against Stem cell research based solely on their abhorrence of experimenting on aborted babies.
Not to mention I'm a Theistic Evolutionist, And a lot of Christians are becoming so. Even the Pope doesn't deny Evolution. As well as the fact that YEC's are the minority, not the majority.

Plus, The Hindu's, The Buddhists, The Pagans and the LHPers don't have a problem with Evolution, Nor do they have specific beliefs about Stem cell research, Nor are they YEC's.
So you really don't have much of a leg to stand on.

 

[Thana]

Oh no, I'm being persecuted again!

You're missing the point, unfortunately.
The point is that religion can impair critical thinking. This is a fact for most religious people.

You're implying I have a persecution complex, Based on one very short post. That doesn't seem like a reasonable deduction.

Please provide actual proof that religion impairs critical thinking, And maybe we can have a proper debate. Otherwise you're speaking with nothing other than bias, And I think bias is one of the biggest impairments of critical thinking, Don't you?

 

[kepha31]

Does religion impair critical thinking? It depends on the religion.

It can hardly be disputed that anyone (Christian or not) who does philosophy or thinks logically at all is indebted to Socrates: one of the great fathers of philosophy. In a nutshell, socratic method is questioning an opponent in dialogue (or, sometimes "turning the tables"), to see if what he believes can withstand scrutiny.

MATTHEW 12:10-11 And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. And they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath?" so that they might accuse him. [11] He said to them, "What man of you, if he has one sheep and it falls into a pit on the sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?"

This is a socratic question and accompanying "reductio ad absurdum." He shows that the logical consequences of an extreme adherence to the law lead to the absurdity of a sheep being hurt or dying simply because it is the sabbath day.

It is this kind of religiosity that impairs critical thinking, not religion itself. Jesus rigorously opposed religiosity. There are many instances where Jesus employs the socratic method to teach or admonish.

The 18th century philosophers do not have the corner market on critical thinking.

"...Another word for “critical thinking” is “logical thinking.” This is a high and holy thing, in fact a very Christian thing because the ultimate foundation of logic is the Logos, the eternal Mind or Reason or Inner Word of God, which John’s Gospel identifies as the pre-incarnate Christ. The human art and science of logic is the instrument that teaches us to rightly order and structure our thoughts, as a means to the end of thought, which is truth.
One of the most useful aspects of that ordering and structuring is the realization that all the things that can ever go wrong with any thoughts come under just these three headings: ambiguous terms, false premises, or logical fallacies. And this is a wonderful simplifying and clarifying of the process of criticizing any thoughts, written or spoken, by any person, yourself or another, about any topic, human or divine.
"Critical thinking" is simply the currently fashionable term for what used to be called "human reason." It means judging thoughts, negatively or positively, by these three standards, but it also includes at least four more things..."
Library : Critical Thinking for Christians - Catholic Culture​

 

[Storm]

Excellent post, @kepha31

 

[icehorse]

Thana,

You continue to have a bad case of the "strawmans" - can you try to keep things civil? Your surmise as to what I can or cannot imagine is laughable.

So, on what do you base your belief that a 3 day old blastocyst is a "baby"? Do you feel the same way about skin cells you brush off casually? If not, why not? Would you allow someone to take a swab of moisture from your mouth? Why or why not?

As for other faiths that are okay with evolution, I think you missed the point. There are enough strident creationists in the US to have made a serious negative impact on the teaching of science in the US. Remember I never lumped all religious people into one category. I made a claim about the tendencies of religious beliefs.

 

[Storm]

Remember I never lumped all religious people into one category. I made a claim about the tendencies of religious beliefs.

Believers.

And the specific example of Creationism is largely American believers, though conservative Muslim nations have taken a liking.

 

[icehorse]

Hey kepha,

2000 years ago it was good advice to "go forth and multiply". These days, it's not such a wise strategy. But millions of Catholics around the world, even in AIDS-torn regions of Africa, still believe that contraception is a bad idea. So in the face of disease, poverty, and dwindling resources, many religious people suspend their critical thinking and thoughtlessly trust 2000 year old advice.

and a good night to you all

 

[Storm]

Yeah, that really wasn't the point of the post.

 

[SkylarHunter]

But across the Muslim world, I think your perspective is rarely true. Many of the world's Muslims are illiterate and/or impoverished, and/or oppressed.

In that particular case I think you're completely right. In the muslim world people are kept ignorant on purpose so they can be controlled.
I love learning as much as possible and I believe the more educated people are the better they "can" be, but to make an educated person become a good human being there is another side that needs to be developed as well, and that's the personal side. If we teach academics but forget to teach understanding, kindness, tolerance and above all, respect, then we'll always end up with people who care about nothing but themselves.

 

[SkylarHunter]

Hey kepha,

2000 years ago it was good advice to "go forth and multiply". These days, it's not such a wise strategy. But millions of Catholics around the world, even in AIDS-torn regions of Africa, still believe that contraception is a bad idea. /QUOTE]

The Bible doesn't say one word about avoiding a pregnancy. That was made up by the church.

 

[Thana]

So, on what do you base your belief that a 3 day old blastocyst is a "baby"? Do you feel the same way about skin cells you brush off casually? If not, why not? Would you allow someone to take a swab of moisture from your mouth? Why or why not?

Just because you see it that way doesn't mean others have to or should. My skin cells don't have the potential nor are they designed to become a living, breathing human being so no, Obviously I don't see them that way.

As for other faiths that are okay with evolution, I think you missed the point. There are enough strident creationists in the US to have made a serious negative impact on the teaching of science in the US. Remember I never lumped all religious people into one category. I made a claim about the tendencies of religious beliefs.

So your argument is that because people deny Evolution and actively seek to inhibit it's spread and use religion to justify it, Therefore religion allegedly is the problem as to why they don't critically think.
I'm sorry, That's not a reasonable argument. Enough with your anecdotes. I want proof, Otherwise I have no other reasonable option than to dismiss your 'theory'.

 

[kepha31]

Hey kepha,

2000 years ago it was good advice to "go forth and multiply". These days, it's not such a wise strategy. But millions of Catholics around the world, even in AIDS-torn regions of Africa, still believe that contraception is a bad idea. So in the face of disease, poverty, and dwindling resources, many religious people suspend their critical thinking and thoughtlessly trust 2000 year old advice.

and a good night to you all

ambiguous terms, false premises, or logical fallacies
Icehorse, the topic is critical thinking, not Catholic teaching on sexuality. But you couldn't resist an irrelevant dig, which in itself is antithetical to critical thinking. I said, "One of the most useful aspects of that ordering and structuring is the realization that all the things that can ever go wrong with any thoughts come under just these three headings: ambiguous terms, false premises, or logical fallacies. And this is a wonderful simplifying and clarifying of the process of criticizing any thoughts, written or spoken, by any person, yourself or another, about any topic, human or divine."
Contraception has not, in general terms, stopped the spread of disease, reduced poverty, or dwindled resources. That is a logical fallacy and a false premise. Widespread poverty and reduced resources are the result mostly of corporate greed and the lust for power, not the Catholic Church. Few would dispute this. It's strange that you hold the Catholic Church accountable for human misery, ignoring the fact that she feeds, clothes, houses, educates and provides medical care for more poor people than any institution on the planet. There is no "critical thinking" by adhering to popular fallacies.

Maybe you should apply critical thinking to the Church's teaching on sexuality (not the media version) based on sound information instead of headless chicken remarks.

Edward C. (Ted) Green is an American medical anthropologist who was a Senior Research Scientist at the Harvard School of Public Health[1] and served as director of the AIDS Prevention Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies.
Edward C. Green - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
scroll down to Views on AIDS Prevention

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/harvard_researcher_agrees_with_pope_on_condoms_in_africa/

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2013/07/devout-catholics-have-better-sex-says-us-news-and-world-report.html

The point of all this is not to derail the thread, but to show ambiguous terms, false premises, or logical fallacies in Icehorse's remark.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/harvard_researcher_agrees_with_pope_on_condoms_in_africa/

 

[muhammad_isa]

So your argument is that because people deny Evolution and actively seek to inhibit it's spread and use religion to justify it, Therefore religion allegedly is the problem as to why they don't critically think..

Not religion in general .. but I understand about 40% of people in USA are Y.E.C's .. a high proportion.

So I would say that 'fundamentalism was to blame. eg. extreme literal interpretation

In the UK, there are more people who believe in Almighty God AND acknowledge basic evolutionary theory to be true. This is not hypocritical unless you believe the Bible to be totally literally correct .. and even then, you either need to be a top language scholar or trust some church leader etc.

 

[Storm]

Not religion in general .. but I understand about 40% of people in USA are Y.E.C's .. a high proportion.

High enough to be unbelievable. Are you quite sure it was Young Earth Creationism and not all Creationists?

 

[ShivaFan]

The greatest mass murderers and pale horsemen of famine, pollution, dogmatic control of education or total elimination of it were the scientific socialists, international socialists and communists, and national socialists who attempted to totally eliminate critical thinking. And they all existed in the modern 19th, 20th and 21st Century.

Every age has had it's share of gulags and goons who attack critical thinking, it is just that in sheer numbers the plague that is perpetrated upon fellow humans has been enabled and made easier by modern inventions and technology.

These modern monsters, the ugly souls of socialism, straightjacket all critical thinking (look at the global warming kooks) often in the name of countering "religion", yet it is clear they themselves are a doctrinaire cult, yes a religion, of themself.

The extremist wing of such cults, such as in the example of the Khmer Rouge and the Pol Pot types (Saloth Sar of the "Democratic Kampuchea") in the end even outlaw doctors and scientists as "elitists" and turn the clock back to primitive agracultural slave labor society.

But the older demons are still here, the example being ISIS and such Islamic extremists. Then you see, probably without coincidence, the extremist socialist cults aligning and marching with and being friendly with and making excuses for the Islamic throwback extremists. They showed up in Ferguson.

The greatest friend of science and discovery is free market capitalism and trade. It also inspires critical thinking to drive success.

Lack of critical thinking is the state of human affairs. That is why you should not trust giving power to humans in government, especially if the government is using targets as the enemy such as religion, the Jews, whatever. Once they use targets as their vocabulary, that means they are using excuses not to look at them and what they really want to do to you.

 

[Cephus]

I agree that that's possible. But, because they can throw reason out the window doesn't mean that they all are throwing reason out the window. Their beliefs can be based on reason.

No, in fact, they can't. An irrational belief cannot be based on reason because reason requires one to maintain rationality and a commitment to evidence.

 

[Cephus]

I don't know what exactly is a "woo belief", but it probably comes down to what you call a religion.

Any belief that is irrational, not based on evidence, critical thinking or logic. Usually it has something to do with the supernatural but it can also be psychic powers, aliens, Bigfoot and the like. woo or woo-woo - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com