Does Spirituality Require Belief?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Definitely not. How I view spirituality is as a process and experience of understanding and magnifying the Self through the use of various tools such as the acquiring of knowledge, meditation, mythology, symbolism, altered states of consciousness, etc. to tap into the subconscious and bring forth balance and liberation. But my spiritual path is Self-centered rather than centered on some external deity to bend the knee to or assimilate into. At best, the gods are guides and it doesn't really matter if you view them as literally existing or not, or as having an independent existence or not. Even prayer can be viewed as calling on latent powers that exist within your Self, through the lens or "mask" of your deity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Spirituality to me is about giving up the self, as we find in all religions globally....That 0neness (Zero-ness) is the ultimate goal.

You obviously haven't looked into many religions.

 

[Kirran]

You obviously haven't looked into many religions.

If one takes wizanda's 'self' as ego, then one can see their point.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If one takes wizanda's 'self' as ego, then one can see their point.

Even then, that's hardly the point of all religions.

 

[Kirran]

Even then, that's hardly the point of all religions.

True. Perhaps a feature of all mysticism.

 

[allfoak]

It comes as quite a shock to some when they realize that they don't need someone to explain it all to them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

True. Perhaps a feature of all mysticism.

Depending on how you define mysticism.

 

[wizanda]

You obviously haven't looked into many religions.

Sorry admit shouldn't have used 'All', how stupid of me.... Yet clearly many of them teach Altruism.

• Buddhism
• Jainism
• Christianity
• Islam
• Judaism
• Sikhism
• Hinduism

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I think when Buddha put forth the anatta doctrine, he meant the individual self, as the term atman/atta was commonly used at the time, but this doesn't necessitate any contradiction with the atman as spoken of in Advaita and co.

I'm afraid it does. Hinduism and Buddhism differ on this point, the Heart Sutra makes this abundantly clear.

I don't see a problem with making different assumptions on such questions, but I'd suggest that having firm beliefs about them could be counter-productive because then we have fixed views and expectations. That can lead to confirmation bias, which means it's difficult to see the truth of things.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Beliefs are a must.

I disagree. We may need working assumptions, but beliefs are often more trouble than they're worth.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think when Buddha put forth the anatta doctrine, he meant the individual self, as the term atman/atta was commonly used at the time, but this doesn't necessitate any contradiction with the atman as spoken of in Advaita and co.

'Atta' sometimes has a different meaning than 'atma' (self). It is a difficult word to translate in English. I translate it as 'substance' (like in 'bereft of any substance').

 

[Sunstone]

Beliefs are a must.

I think of them as mostly impediments to dealing skillfully with ones psychological self. I certainly wouldn't place money on someone becoming enlightened who held many beliefs about enlightenment.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I disagree. We may need working assumptions, but beliefs are often more trouble than they're worth.

If you have no beliefs (aka for example the "goal" behind meditation, why meditate? Just because? Whatever your answer is that justify your practice is a belief. Without it, why practice?)

Belief isnt abrahamic.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think of them as mostly impediments to dealing skillfully with ones psychological self. I certainly wouldn't place money on someone becoming enlightened who held many beliefs about enlightenment.

Beliefs arent abrahamic, though. The suttas are full of beliefs. Hence why meaning behind practice. Four noble truths are belief. Eight fold path are beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. "Those 'beliefs' mean nothing without practice"

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If you have no beliefs (aka for example the "goal" behind meditation, why meditate? Just because?

Because it's fascinating and revealing. There is an assumption that it might lead to something, but these days I don't have a particular belief about what that something is.

I think the distinction between a belief and an assumption is worth making here. An assumption is more provisional, not something tightly held.

 

[allfoak]

A belief can only exist in an un-examined state.
While it may useful as a beginning, it is essentially unknown until experienced.

 

[Sunstone]

If you have no beliefs (aka for example the "goal" behind meditation, why meditate? Just because? Whatever your answer is that justify your practice is a belief. Without it, why practice?)

Belief isnt abrahamic.

Whatever happened to meditating out of sheer curiosity? "I wonder what I might find if I meditate?" I pretty much agree with Jiddu Krishnamurti that having a belief about meditation can skew and distort the results.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The suttas are full of beliefs. Hence why meaning behind practice. Four noble truths are belief. Eight fold path are beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. "Those 'beliefs' mean nothing without practice"

I think for most Buddhists there is an element of faith in the possibility of enlightenment ( the Third Noble Truth ), and an element of faith in the effectiveness of the 8-fold path ( the Fourth Noble Truth ). "Confidence" is probably more accurate here than "faith" though.
The First and Second Truths are more like scientific theories to be tested, statements to be personally investigated.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Whatever happened to meditating out of sheer curiosity?

That's really always been my primary motivation. Exploration.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Beliefs: what and purpose behind your practice.

My belief is that "we all have a Buddhanature"

To be intouch with this Buddhamature,

My belief is to "practice" meditation

By practicing daily, my belief is to "be one with the wisdom/buddha"

How? I practice chanting lotus sutra and living the four noble truths

These two things among other teachings/beliefs/values/etc are what I base my life on

And the only way i can live these "beliefs/etc" is by

Practice.

Without belief, "what" am I practicing, why, whats the meaning?

Without practice, why believe? Why hold value (aka believe) in these teachings in yourself. What does your beliefs do if you dont practice them.

They go hand in hand

Beliefs are a necessity.