Does the Apostle Paul claim that Jesus Christ, the holy anointed man, is Almighty God?

[rational experiences]

After gods heavens changed by mother womb vacuum void stopping cave sin holes opening. Entombed mass body flesh God wrapped as energy inside of rock stopped leaving.

By mother womb removal of sacrifycing. Only scientific terminology of men. Not life an experience as you live.

Sacrificed by temple sciences was Jesus involving star mass returned too.

Man's life was saved.

You named it Jesus.

Star fall in space however kept returning burning. As it's not earths history.

So other men like Jesus incident got sacrificed. Write new testimonials... a long time after.

In mind conscious bio life body sacrificed the memory visions of man they saw were about human men before them. In that incident.

Wasn't the same incidence but they would have referenced it. Real claim gods mass heavens saved them but it's not a man.

How humans infer to pre incidences human is why the used advice is incorrect. As no man is God.

A review you don't want to apply as your research is to prove it and not reason why it occurred. As science wants to use it as a new machine thesis.

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't follow this. Why would "ego" make people think Jesus was God?

ego: a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.

People that think Jesus is God, this reflects on them, and they feel a high sense of self-esteem and self-importance. It led to the crusades, to drive out the "infidels" that didn't believe that Jesus was God. That they believed that Jesus was a Prophet didn't matter, they were "infidels", and inferior to Christians. This pattern played out in Christianity's history in other parts of the world.

 

[Truthseeker]

It's just that denying the Bible is what Baha'is have to do if the want to see Baha'u'llah as the return of Christ and if they want to believe what Baha'u'llah tells us about other things.
So denial of the Bible is a must for Baha'is and is the fruit of Baha'u'llah.

That is just my take. I don't deny the Bible, I just don't think portions of it are the Word of God. In those portions where it is not the Word of God, there is nonetheless a level of inspiration in some places. It guides the morals, and that's what is important, not doctrine.

God sent His Prophets into the world to teach and enlighten man, to explain to him the mystery of the Power of the Holy Spirit, to enable him to reflect the light, and so in his turn, to be the source of guidance to others. The Heavenly Books, the Bible, the Qur'án, and the other Holy Writings have been given by God as guides into the paths of Divine virtue, love, justice and peace.

Therefore I say unto you that ye should strive to follow the counsels of these Blessed Books, and so order your lives that ye may, following the examples set before you, become yourselves the saints of the Most High!
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 61)

 

[Brian2]

Technically speaking, what happened is that God sent the Holy Spirit to Mary, and then Mary conceived and had a son, Jesus.
Jesus was the Son of God, since He was born of the Holy Spirit.

What does "born of the Holy Spirit" mean?
What came from the Father to earth ended up a man. The physical body is part of the humanity of Jesus. Jesus was born of Mary.
What do you think?

The Essence of God always remains hidden, it can never be known. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being since He has the Attributes of God and a divine nature.

Jesus, before He took on the nature of a servant only had the nature of God. (see Phil 2) Anyone who has only the nature of God is God. The Son has always been the Son of the Father and has always had that divine nature. As Phil 2 says, He was equal to God and stepped down to become a man, part of the creation, even though not created.

That is correct. Jesus has 2 natures and one of them is the nature of His Father, God nature. Jesus is the Son of God with the nature of His Father. However, that does not mean that the Essence of God became a man, as the Essence of God can never be revealed to man. Only the Attributes and the Will of God can be revealed to man.

More Baha'u'llah double talk imo. Essence, attributes, what do those words mean to us?
Whatever Jesus was before becoming a man, was what He remained as a man. He may not have been living in and using His omnipotence, omnipresence etc etc, but He would have had them still and as I said
"being in nature God" is what He remained as a man, which you seem to agree with. (Phil 2)
He was both God and man. If someone is God then they have the essence of God or are the essence of God. You can't be God without the essence of God surely. If you are only a manifestation, some sort of copy of God then maybe not but Jesus was not that, Jesus was the real thing, the Son of the Father, God from God, one in essence with the Father.

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.”

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-20.html

It is interesting that Baha'u'llah says that the manifestation of God is God but does not mean that.

That is correct. Jesus remained in the form of God (in the nature of God) when He took the nature of a servant and was made in the outer likeness of a human.

Jesus had a twofold nature, one nature divine, the other nature human. In the Bible, when Jesus spoke from His divine nature He was the Voice of God, but when He spoke from His human nature He was a Servant of God. But all along Jesus was both divine and human.

You might use the same words but the meaning is completely different.

 

[Brian2]

That is just my take. I don't deny the Bible, I just don't think portions of it are the Word of God. In those portions where it is not the Word of God, there is nonetheless a level of inspiration in some places. It guides the morals, and that's what is important, not doctrine.

God sent His Prophets into the world to teach and enlighten man, to explain to him the mystery of the Power of the Holy Spirit, to enable him to reflect the light, and so in his turn, to be the source of guidance to others. The Heavenly Books, the Bible, the Qur'án, and the other Holy Writings have been given by God as guides into the paths of Divine virtue, love, justice and peace.

Therefore I say unto you that ye should strive to follow the counsels of these Blessed Books, and so order your lives that ye may, following the examples set before you, become yourselves the saints of the Most High!
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 61)

That is like what the Mormons say. They believe the Bible as far as it agrees with the Mormon scriptures. IOWs they deny parts of the Bible, as do Baha'is and for the same reason, the believe Baha'i as first priority and everything else has to submit to what Baha'i says.
So denying parts of the Bible is just a fruit of Baha'u'llah, the false prophet, and followers of Baha'u'llah manifest this fruit.

 

[Brian2]

Belief in the Bible is a must for Baha'is according to Baha'u'llah.
Baha'u'llah referred to the Bible as God's holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures

“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! “How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also?” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 89

It is only a pretense that Baha'is believe the Bible. Belief in the teachings of Baha'u'llah mean that you must deny parts of the Bible. Belief in Baha'u'llah comes first for a Baha'i and so you actually believe you believe the Bible while denying it.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

I believe that Jesus was a mediator, but not because Jesus was fully God and fully human. It is logically impossible for Jesus to be fully God and fully human. Instead, I believe that Jesus had a twofold nature, so He was both divine and human, one part God and part human, like a hybrid being.

Say what? "He was both divine and human, one part God and part human, like a hybrid being". are you kidding? scripture, Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
the Form/NATURE of God is Spirit, (John 4:24a). the Form/NATURE of the servant, man is Flesh. and if he TOOK ON the Form/NATURE of the servant, then the nature he took on is NOT his Nature but only he "took" it on. so he's not one part God, and one part man, no he's God in Flesh as, as, as, or in the LIKENESS of a man.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

HE "took part", and was not a "Partaker" big difference.

101G.

 

[Soapy]

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus cannot be God if He is a mediator between God and man, that just won't work.
You and I are using logic, but logic doesn't work on Trinitarians. If it did, they could no longer believe that Jesus is God.

We are using more than logic. We are using truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are using more than logic. We are using truth.

We are using more than truth. We are using Truth from God.
The reason I cannot quit is because I cannot stand to see the Truth from God misrepresented.

 

[Soapy]

I don't think so, it is more of application of what we read...

Paul said::

Christ’s Humility and Exaltation
5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,

6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
as something to be used for His own advantage.
7 Instead He emptied Himself
by assuming the form of a slave,
taking on the likeness of men.
And when He had come as a man
in His external form,
8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death—
even to death on a cross.
9 For this reason God highly exalted Him
and gave Him the name
that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
of those who are in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

He was not only in the form of God but had equality with the Father. Thus all things were created by him and nothing that we see created was created without him.

Obviously, if the Father created The Word, then not all things were created by him.

Here is something interesting. You quote this and add:

9 For this reason God highly exalted Him
and gave Him the name
that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
of those who are in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

He was not only in the form of God but had equality with the Father. Thus all things were created by him and nothing that we see created was created without him.

Obviously, if the Father created The Word, then not all things were created by him.

Does ‘equality with the Father’ mean that he IS GOD?

But yet Jesus says the Father is greater than he. How is being equal to the Father mean that the Father is greater than he?

Also, the scriptures says YAHWEH SAYS that He created all things… yet you are saying that YESHUA created all things? Is YAHWEH YESHUA?

And GOD glorified Jesus … but you say Jesus IS GOD! Then Jesus glorified himself? What else does Jesus say:

• “Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.” (John 8:54)

“God glorified Jesus” - “My Father glorifies me”

Is there a link there, somehow?

 

[Soapy]

It was not the Son anointing Himself or God anointing Himself, as you mischaracterize. It was the Father anointing His Son, who became flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ. This anointing by the Father of His Son, for His earthly mission, in no way diminishes the the Godhood of Jesus.

In the OT scriptures who is the Rock? Who led the people of Israel through the wilderness? Is not the “Rock” a repeated reference to God?

And the Lord said to Moses, “Go on before the people, and take with you some of the elders of Israel. Also take in your hand your rod with which you struck the river, and go. 6 Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock in Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink.” Exodus 17:5-7

He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He. Deuteronomy 32:4

“No one is holy like the Lord, For there is no one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God. 1 Samuel 2:2

For who is God, except the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God? 2 Samuel 2:32

The Lord lives!
Blessed be my Rock!
Let the God of my salvation be exalted.
Psalm 18:46

In the daytime also He led them with the cloud,
And all the night with a light of fire.
He split the rocks in the wilderness,
And gave them drink in abundance like the depths.
He also brought streams out of the rock,
And caused waters to run down like rivers.

But they sinned even more against Him
By rebelling against the Most High in the wilderness.
Psalm 78:14-17

Then they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer. Psalm 78:35


“WHO” do the NT scriptures say that Rock was?

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and
that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4

Oh boy, that’s a great one….

Didn’t Jesus say that Peter was the rock?

And doesn’t the name, Peter, mean, ‘The Rock’?

So… it was Peter, that was in the wilderness??

 

[InChrist]

Oh boy, that’s a great one….

Didn’t Jesus say that Peter was the rock?

And doesn’t the name, Peter, mean, ‘The Rock’?

So… it was Peter, that was in the wilderness??

Oh boy, that’s a great one….

Didn’t Jesus say that Peter was the rock?

And doesn’t the name, Peter, mean, ‘The Rock’?

So… it was Peter, that was in the wilderness??

The name Peter/ Petros does mean rock or little stone. Yet, the NT scriptures are abundantly clear that Jesus is the only foundation and head of the church: Acts 4:11,12 ; 1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20, 5:23; 1 Peter 2:6,7.

So when Jesus said Peter was the rock He was referring to Peter’s understanding and testimony concerning Himself as the Savior/ Messiah in the previous verse. The testimony/confession of faith which is the bedrock upon which the church is built; Jesus Christ the foundation and Rock.

…Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matthew 16:16

Again, the scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ was the Rock in the wilderness…

…and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:4

God the Son; revealed as YWHW in the OT
and Jesus Christ in the NT, Who came as the Savior of the world.

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28

 

[Kenny]

Here is something interesting. You quote this and add:

Does ‘equality with the Father’ mean that he IS GOD?

But yet Jesus says the Father is greater than he. How is being equal to the Father mean that the Father is greater than he?

Also, the scriptures says YAHWEH SAYS that He created all things… yet you are saying that YESHUA created all things? Is YAHWEH YESHUA?

And GOD glorified Jesus … but you say Jesus IS GOD! Then Jesus glorified himself? What else does Jesus say:

• “Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.” (John 8:54)

“God glorified Jesus” - “My Father glorifies me”

Is there a link there, somehow?

You are pointing out the issue that most people have. They express the position of Jesus when He already emptied himself of is God attributes and thus "My Father is greater than me" for the very obvious reason that I just mentioned.

But before he was made flesh, "In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God.

So "in the form of God and equality with God - is God.

God is righteousness = Jesus is righteousness
God is peace = Jesus is peace
God is the Good Shepherd = Jesus is the Good Shepherd
God is the victory = Jesus is the victory
God is salvation = Yeshua is salvation

And you can go down the line.

 

[InChrist]

How can God be a mediator among three "equal" persons? If Jesus was "God in the flesh," he was not equal to the One he prayed to. Either he was greater or lesser than the One he prayed to. You decide. But he was not "equal" to two others called God.

Jesus was not a mediator among the three equal Persons of the Godhead.
He was and is the Mediator between God and human beings… because He became flesh/human. He lowered Himself, but did not, nor could not lose His eternal Godhood. Jesus Alone is the only Being, as fully God and fully human, Who has the capacity to be Mediator.

I see no reason to think that Jesus praying or communicating with His Father in heaven makes Him lesser.

 

[Trailblazer]

…Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matthew 16:16

…Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
…Simon Peter did not answer and say, “You are the Christ, the living God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Again, the scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ was the Rock in the wilderness…

…and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:4

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus was the spiritual Rock, but Peter was the 'rock' upon which the church was built.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[InChrist]

ego: a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.

People that think Jesus is God, this reflects on them, and they feel a high sense of self-esteem and self-importance. It led to the crusades, to drive out the "infidels" that didn't believe that Jesus was God. That they believed that Jesus was a Prophet didn't matter, they were "infidels", and inferior to Christians. This pattern played out in Christianity's history in other parts of the world.

False, those who acknowledge Jesus Christ as God must do so in humility acknowledging their need for God to save them and that there is salvation in no other name under heaven, but Jesus Christ, through whom one must be saved. This is the opposite of self-importance. Such humility, nor acknowledgement of Jesus as God and one’s need of a Savior did not lead to the crusades or other atrocities in history. Such violent behavior is always the result of rejecting God’s Word and arrogantly using God as a means for political gain and power. Again, the opposite of humility before God.

 

[InChrist]

…Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
…Simon Peter did not answer and say, “You are the Christ, the living God.

What else would the Only Son of God be, but God? He wasn’t a human or created something in eternity. Human fathers have a human son with human nature. God’s Son is God with God Nature.

 

[Kenny]

…Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
…Simon Peter did not answer and say, “You are the Christ, the living God.

That is true... in that he was made flesh

But in the resurrection Thomas said,
John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

And there are a multitude of other scriptures that support that position

 

[Trailblazer]

GINOLJC, to all.

Say what? "He was both divine and human, one part God and part human, like a hybrid being". are you kidding? scripture, Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
the Form/NATURE of God is Spirit, (John 4:24a). the Form/NATURE of the servant, man is Flesh. and if he TOOK ON the Form/NATURE of the servant, then the nature he took on is NOT his Nature but only he "took" it on. so he's not one part God, and one part man, no he's God in Flesh as, as, as, or in the LIKENESS of a man.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

HE "took part", and was not a "Partaker" big difference.

101G.

As @It Aint Necessarily So said, in so many words in post #462:

"My point is that if one is allowed to assign whatever meaning to the words in scripture that he prefers, the words mean no more or less than whatever he says they mean,"

That is the reason that Christians cannot agree on what the Bible verses mean.

In other words, one can make the Bible mean whatever they want to believe it means, by interpreting it as they please.
That is why some Christians believe that Jesus is God and other Christians do not believe that. It all depends upon how they interpret certain words, what they think those words mean, and how they interpret verses, what they think those verses mean.

Jesus was not God in the flesh because the Form/NATURE of God is Spirit (John 4:24), and that means that God is not flesh.

Jesus was a Manifestation of God in the flesh who had a twofold nature, one nature physical, the other nature spiritual.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67