Does the Bible Contradict Itself ?

[Neuropteron]

It is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrew 6:18)
So how could his book be filled with glaring inconsistencies and significant discrepancies and still be called the Word of God?

Is consideration of how we got the Bible today the answer ?
These writings were "transmitted" or "entrusted" to scribes, sopherims and Masoretes, who made copies repeatedly for over a thousand year, until the Middle Ages.

Then they were translated from Hebrew to Greek and then to latin, from these thousands of manuscript Master copies were made. From these came the English translations.

Copied Manusscripts and Translations are not inspired !

Thus some scribal variations crept in. But none are of such scope and weight as to cast doubt on the inspiration and authority of the Bible as a whole. By careful examination, seeming contradictions can be shown to have an honest solution.

At times, Bible writers do not always seem to agree on matters relating to figures, order of events, wording of quotations, and so forth.
But consider: If you were to ask several eyewitnesses of an event to write down what they saw, would all accounts coincide entirely in wording and detail? If they did, would you not be suspicious of collusion among the writers?
So, too, Bible writers were allowed by God to retain their own particular style and language, while God saw to it that his ideas and pertinent facts were conveyed accurately.

But are there not texts in the Bible that say just the opposite of other texts?
Let us consider just one as an example:

Genesis 2:2 that records that God rested from all his work. Contrasting with this is Jesus comment at John 5:17 where he says that God has kept working until now. But as the context shows, the record in Genesis is speaking specifically of Gods works of material creation, while Jesus was referring to Gods works concerning his divine guidance and care for mankind.

Most people fail to put forth necessary effort, finding it so much easier just to go along with the critics.
Perhaps God is giving them exactly what they want:
2 Thess 3:11. "...That is why God lets an operation of error go to them...."

Could we not, instead imitate the example of the apostles who when perplexed by what they called a hard saying, silenced every objection with this: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life....(John 6:60) ?

 

[PruePhillip]

It was said of Jesus that He couldn't be the Messiah because it says that the Messiah comes from the lineage of David and the town of Bethlehem. And Jesus, apparently was a Galilean, and obviously not of the tribe of Judah.
Jesus said nothing, it seems, to this accusation.
Methinks the Galilean connection was employed to offend those Jews who wouldn't listen to His Gospel. The key word is 'OFFENSE'
(yet... I think it does say somewhere that He shall be called a Galilean)

 

[shunyadragon]

It is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrew 6:18)
So how could his book be filled with glaring inconsistencies and significant discrepancies and still be called the Word of God?

Is consideration of how we got the Bible today the answer ?
These writings were "transmitted" or "entrusted" to scribes, sopherims and Masoretes, who made copies repeatedly for over a thousand year, until the Middle Ages.

Then they were translated from Hebrew to Greek and then to latin, from these thousands of manuscript Master copies were made. From these came the English translations.

Copied Manusscripts and Translations are not inspired !

Thus some scribal variations crept in. But none are of such scope and weight as to cast doubt on the inspiration and authority of the Bible as a whole. By careful examination, seeming contradictions can be shown to have an honest solution.

At times, Bible writers do not always seem to agree on matters relating to figures, order of events, wording of quotations, and so forth.
But consider: If you were to ask several eyewitnesses of an event to write down what they saw, would all accounts coincide entirely in wording and detail? If they did, would you not be suspicious of collusion among the writers?
So, too, Bible writers were allowed by God to retain their own particular style and language, while God saw to it that his ideas and pertinent facts were conveyed accurately.

But are there not texts in the Bible that say just the opposite of other texts?
Let us consider just one as an example:

Genesis 2:2 that records that God rested from all his work. Contrasting with this is Jesus comment at John 5:17 where he says that God has kept working until now. But as the context shows, the record in Genesis is speaking specifically of Gods works of material creation, while Jesus was referring to Gods works concerning his divine guidance and care for mankind.

Most people fail to put forth necessary effort, finding it so much easier just to go along with the critics.
Perhaps God is giving them exactly what they want:
2 Thess 3:11. "...That is why God lets an operation of error go to them...."

Could we not, instead imitate the example of the apostles who when perplexed by what they called a hard saying, silenced every objection with this: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life....(John 6:60) ?

The Bible has been demonstrated by the evidence as a compilation of edited and redacted books dating from between about maybe 700 BCE to 300 AD of questionable provenance. The Pentateuch is demonstrated to be an eclectic edited compilation from materials dating back to Sumarian, Babylonian, Canaanite and Ugarit.cunieform tablets.

Word of God? No. Containing works inspired by God, I believe so, but also compiled by fallible humans from the perspective and their interpretation in the time it was written, edited and compiled.

 

[PruePhillip]

The Bible has been demonstrated by the evidence as a compilation of edited and redacted books dating from between about maybe 700 BCE to 300 AD of questionable provenance. The Pentateuch is demonstrated to be an eclectic edited compilation from materials dating back to Sumarian, Babylonian, Canaanite and Ugarit.cunieform tablets.

Word of God? No. Containing works inspired by God, I believe so, but also compiled by fallible humans from the perspective and their interpretation in the time it was written, edited and compiled.

That verse at the end of Genesis, where Jacob spoke of Judah "the scepter shall pass from Judah, nor a lawgiver between his feet, until Shiloh come and in him shall the nations trust" speaks profoundly to me.

How could he know he was summarizing the whole thrust of the bible - the rise and fall of monarchical Israel and the coming of the Messiah who would speak to the Gentiles.
Did Jacob say this, or was this something written by some scribe in Babylon?
Maybe Genesis was written AFTER the end of Israel and Jesus? Otherwise, how could Babylonian age scribes have known?

No, Jacob spoke these words. They were inspired by the God he loved.

 

[Kenny]

Sounds like your convinced already.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sounds like your convinced already.

He appears to have at least tried to research the problem honestly.

 

[PruePhillip]

Sounds like your convinced already.

Yeah... maybe Jacob just made it up.
Other option, maybe someone made up Jacob AND this prophecy.
Not sure of the odds, though.
There's a kingdom of the Jews
and Judean kings
and the Law
and the Messiah
and the end of the monarchy
and the end of Israel
and the Messiah trusted by the Gentiles

Getting one can be a coincidence, getting seven can't surely be.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah... maybe Jacob just made it up.
Other option, maybe someone made up Jacob AND this prophecy.
Not sure of the odds, though.
There's a kingdom of the Jews
and Judean kings
and the Law
and the Messiah
and the end of the monarchy
and the end of Israel
and the Messiah trusted by the Gentiles

Getting one can be a coincidence, getting seven can't surely be.

Hardly a prophecy. You are reinterpreting after the fact.

 

[PruePhillip]

Hardly a prophecy. You are reinterpreting after the fact.

Judah was the one who offered himself for his brother.
It's symbolic of the Messiah who came from the line of Judah and not the Levites (from whom came the Old Testament priests.)
Jacob is saying there will be a Messiah for the nations, and it will come from Judah, and when He comes the nation of Israel is finished. What other writers (David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel etc..) pointed out was the Jewish nation would not receive this Messiah, and they would be exiled until the Gentiles time is fulfilled.

 

[shunyadragon]

That verse at the end of Genesis, where Jacob spoke of Judah "the scepter shall pass from Judah, nor a lawgiver between his feet, until Shiloh come and in him shall the nations trust" speaks profoundly to me.

Speaking profoundly to you? So what?!?!?! This is the Torah and Tanakh, and your interpretation has noo meaning in Hebrew to Judaism.

This exemplified the problem of the egocentric interpretation of scripture, and as a matter of fact differing interpretation of all the Abrahamic religions and theri multiple divisions.

How could he know he was summarizing the whole thrust of the bible - the rise and fall of monarchical Israel and the coming of the Messiah who would speak to the Gentiles.
Did Jacob say this, or was this something written by some scribe in Babylon?

Considering the evidence of scripture, and history of the scripture in Hebrew it is your rather late interpretation it is most likely your interpretation and nothing more.

No, Jacob spoke these words. They were inspired by the God he loved.

Yes, the Jews believe he spoke these words inspired by God, but meaningful to Judaism in their own language not yours.

 

[PruePhillip]

Speaking profoundly to you? So what?!?!?! This is the Torah and Tanakh, and your interpretation has noo meaning in Hebrew to Judaism.

This exemplified the problem of the egocentric interpretation of scripture, and as a matter of fact differing interpretation of all the Abrahamic religions and theri multiple divisions.



Considering the evidence of scripture, and history of the scripture in Hebrew it is your rather late interpretation it is most likely your interpretation and nothing more.



Yes, the Jews believe he spoke these words inspired by God, but meaningful to Judaism in their own language not yours.

Daniel said the Messiah would come while the temple still stood. So it's obvious the Temple wasn't going to be around forever, and that provides a reference to when their Messiah must come.
And Jacob et al were saying the Jews would lose their nation.

There are certainly many Jews, then and now, who reject this interpretation. But they need to explain why they lost their nation for nearly 2,000 years and were exiled into all nations. Pogrom, Genocide and Holocaust.
As Jesus put it, the Jews did not know the time of their visitation.
Ezekiel spoke "I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again" and this points to something Jesus also said, that Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles until the Gentile time is fulfilled. That time is now.

 

[Skwim]

It is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrew 6:18)
So how could his book be filled with glaring inconsistencies and significant discrepancies and still be called the Word of God?

Sloppy work in a book he doesn't care about.

Copied Manusscripts and Translations are not inspired

How do you know?

At times, Bible writers do not always seem to agree on matters relating to figures, order of events, wording of quotations, and so forth.

"not always SEEM to agree"? If you read your Bible you'll see they sometimes outright DON'T agree.

But consider: If you were to ask several eyewitnesses of an event to write down what they saw, would all accounts coincide entirely in wording and detail? If they did, would you not be suspicious of collusion among the writers?
So, too, Bible writers were allowed by God to retain their own particular style and language, while God saw to it that his ideas and pertinent facts were conveyed accurately.

And just where is this written down?

But are there not texts in the Bible that say just the opposite of other texts?
Let us consider just one as an example:

Genesis 2:2 that records that God rested from all his work. Contrasting with this is Jesus comment at John 5:17 where he says that God has kept working until now. But as the context shows, the record in Genesis is speaking specifically of Gods works of material creation, while Jesus was referring to Gods works concerning his divine guidance and care for mankind.

Most people fail to put forth necessary effort, finding it so much easier just to go along with the critics.
Perhaps God is giving them exactly what they want:
2 Thess 3:11. "...That is why God lets an operation of error go to them...."

Could we not, instead imitate the example of the apostles who when perplexed by what they called a hard saying, silenced every objection with this: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life....(John 6:60) ?

Okay!, Okay! My turn to cherry pick the Bible.

Q. Does the Bible Contradict Itself ?
A. It Shore Does.

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

22. 2 Kings 8:26 26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.
42. 2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.​

Who was the father of Shelah/Sala?

Cainan. Luke 3:35-36 . . . which was the son of Sala, 36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad,
Arpachshad. Genesis II: 12 When Arpachshad was thirty-five years old, he begot Shelah

​

Jesus came into Jerusalem with how many animals?

One - a colt. Mark 11:7 Luke 19:3 5. And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.
Two - a colt and an ***. Matthew 21:7. They brought the *** and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.​

Who killed Goliath?

David. I Samuel 17: 50 50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine,....
Elhanan. 2 Samuel 21:19 19 . . . There was another battle with the Philistines, in Gob, and Elhanan, son of Jair from Bethlehem, killed Goliath of Gath​

.

 

[David T]

Why does nature have glaring contradictions, paradoxes and inconsistencies?

 

[Skwim]

Why does nature have glaring contradictions, paradoxes and inconsistencies?

Paradoxes perhaps, but what contradictions and inconsistencies are you thinking of?

.

 

[PruePhillip]

Sloppy work in a book he doesn't care about..

Now.. this is how the cynic operates.
We have four accounts of Jesus, written by eye witnesses before they died (save for Luke who compiled accounts)
Okay?
We study them and FIND NO DISCREPANCIES.
Big problem - how can three eye witnesses, decades later, come up with identical stories? Try any historic account and you will get as many accounts as there are writers. So, says the cynic, this "proves" there has been later redaction, probably by the Catholic Church.

Or...

We read four accounts and there are variations. Example, did one thief on the cross repent or did they both thieves abuse Jesus? Says the cynic, "This proves the bible contradicts itself."

Of course the bible "contradicts" itself - and it probably does so to put off the all-wise, all-knowing, know-it-all cynics.

 

[ASPls]

Matthew 21:7. They brought the *** and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.

I love that a word that is in the Bible is actually censored by the forum system.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Judah was the one who offered himself for his brother.
It's symbolic of the Messiah who came from the line of Judah and not the Levites (from whom came the Old Testament priests.)
Jacob is saying there will be a Messiah for the nations, and it will come from Judah, and when He comes the nation of Israel is finished. What other writers (David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel etc..) pointed out was the Jewish nation would not receive this Messiah, and they would be exiled until the Gentiles time is fulfilled.

Hardly. You read far too much into that short line. That is not prophecy, that is reinterpretation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Now.. this is how the cynic operates.
We have four accounts of Jesus, written by eye witnesses before they died (save for Luke who compiled accounts)
Okay?
We study them and FIND NO DISCREPANCIES.
Big problem - how can three eye witnesses, decades later, come up with identical stories? Try any historic account and you will get as many accounts as there are writers. So, says the cynic, this "proves" there has been later redaction, probably by the Catholic Church.

Or...

We read four accounts and there are variations. Example, did one thief on the cross repent or did they both thieves abuse Jesus? Says the cynic, "This proves the bible contradicts itself."

Of course the bible "contradicts" itself - and it probably does so to put off the all-wise, all-knowing, know-it-all cynics.

You seem to be rather confused. What "eye-witnesses are you talking about?

 

[PruePhillip]

You seem to be rather confused. What "eye-witnesses are you talking about?

You know, Matthew, Mark and John.
It has been suggested that Luke could have been Peter's account.

 

[PruePhillip]

Hardly. You read far too much into that short line. That is not prophecy, that is reinterpretation.

Yes, that verse is in Genesis 40:10.
I am afraid there's no other way to interpret it - a monarchical line from Judah for a future state of Israel (obviously) which will all end with the Messiah's coming.
How else can you read it?
Certainly it offends the "modern" mind.

The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.