Does the Bible mention Islam?

[W3bcrowf3r]

The Quran doesn't explicitly mention a name and no Muslim would claim that the Quran says Isaac. Are you seriously saying your translation is better than all the translations that have gone before?

99% of the translations are made by sectarians. The majority of the people are misguided.

And i am saying for maybe the 5th time, i checked the Hebrew Tora and the Greek Gospel, and they mentioned the name Isaac. And i checked the Arabic Quran, and it doesn't mention the name of the sacrificed son, it only says 'ghulaam', which means son in Arabic.

I am not even using translations here.

So there is no doubt that Isaac was the sacrificed son. Both the Hebrew Tora and the Greek Gospel say Isaac.

The Quran doesn't mention the name.

So it's Isaac. Isaac was the son who was nearly sacrificed by Abraham.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well i base my understanding on the term 666 which is used in the Previous Revelations. I analyzed how 666 is used in Previous Scriptures. And it was always about gold/wealth/Temple etc. That's why i think the anti-Christ can be linked to the Temple, the owner of it would probably be the man who symbolizes the 666, since 666 is also used in a positive sense by King Solomon.

Do the Bahai believe that the Beast were the Khalifates? Or are you the one who came with that understanding yourself?

You will need to provide references to scripture to make your point.

The exegesis provided in regards the identity of 666 is based entirely on Baha'i writings....

the "beast" mentioned in Revelations 13:18, saying that the numerical value given to the beast in that passage referred to the date of the year, i.e. 666 A.D., when the Umayyad ruler arose. This is obviously a reference to Mu'áwíyih, the Umayyad Caliph who opposed the Imamate.

Biblical Verses, Interpretation of

Abdul-Baha the authorised leader and interpreter of the Baha'i writings has provided commentary on the 11th and 12th Chapters of the book of Revelation.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

You will need to provide references to scripture to make your point.

The exegesis provided in regards the identity of 666 is based entirely on Baha'i writings....

the "beast" mentioned in Revelations 13:18, saying that the numerical value given to the beast in that passage referred to the date of the year, i.e. 666 A.D., when the Umayyad ruler arose. This is obviously a reference to Mu'áwíyih, the Umayyad Caliph who opposed the Imamate.

Biblical Verses, Interpretation of

Abdul-Baha the authorised leader and interpreter of the Baha'i writings has provided commentary on the 11th and 12th Chapters of the book of Revelation.

Well you contradict the Tora and the Gospel and the Quran as well when it comes to the nearly sacrificed Isaac. And i think my understanding about 666 being the anti-Christ makes more sense, since it's not based on your source which you use as an authority over the Tora/Gospel/Quran.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I go by what Christ Jesus will say only.

You seem to think that I'm one of those other Christians, I am not one of them.

Isn't that what every Christians says?

Yeah and that's all Ishmael got from God is a promise to be a great nation.

If Ishmael was that important, than why didn't Christ Jesus make any mentioning of Ishmael in the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus only mentioned, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.
But not a thing about Ishmael in the Gospel's.
Have you any idea why Christ Jesus made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 17:19.

Historic importance is enormously important to understanding the Bible in its entirety including the book of Revelation.

Jesus taught an almost exclusively Jewish audience.There was the Samaritan women at the well but otherwise the disciples were following Jesus because they believed He was the Promised Messiah (John 14:6). He brought a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31) which would ultimately be accepted by the Gentiles and the gospels would be taught to all the nations. This was finally achieved by the mid 19th century. Jesus never mentioned anything about Krishna or Buddha in India. Muhammad wasn't to come on the scene for another 580 years. He made veiled mention about other religions with the comment about having other sheep (John 10:16) but otherwise had little to say about other major world religions. Obviously paganism and the worship of falsegods was to be strictly avoided.

In regards Genesis 17:19 this is references to the Covenants made in the Bible through the lineage of Isaac and the special relationship Yahweh had with the Jewish people. It was Moses who revealed Genesis after all. That does not deny God had a special relationship with the Arab people too. He is the God of all. God is not ethnocentric or racist. He loves all mankind.

 

[Faithofchristian]

YHVH made the promise to Abraham. Because through Isaac, Jesus Christ was born. And Jesus Christ was the sacrificed Lamb.

That's right, but for some unknown reason, people have a hard time with that.

A person would stop and think, if Ishmael was that important, then why didn't Christ Jesus make any mentioning of Ishmael.
In the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus only mentioned Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. That would be sitting down in the kingdom of heaven with God.
But nothing about Ishmael.

That alone should tell people, that Isaac is more important than Ishmael.

The only thing that God did for Ishmael is to make a great nation and the descendants of Ishmael would be a wild man, and every hand would be against the descendants of Ishmael and the descendants of Ishmael would be against every man.
Look around the world, every where the descendants of Ishmael is found, every man's hand are against them.

Everything else God made a covenant with Isaac.
And in the Gospel's not one time did Christ Jesus ever mention Ishmael. Only Isaac.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well you contradict the Tora and the Gospel and the Quran as well when it comes to the nearly sacrificed Isaac. And i think my understanding about 666 being the anti-Christ makes more sense, since it's not based on your source which you use as an authority over the Tora/Gospel/Quran.

Of course your understanding makes more sense to you, because you are you.

You haven't answered my questions though. Do you believe that all of Genesis is literally true or does it contain in part an allegorical narrative?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Isn't that what every Christians says?



Historic importance is enormously important to understanding the Bible in its entirety including the book of Revelation.

Jesus taught an almost exclusively Jewish audience.There was the Samaritan women at the well but otherwise the disciples were following Jesus because they believed He was the Promised Messiah (John 14:6). He brought a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31) which would ultimately be accepted by the Gentiles and the gospels would be taught to all the nations. This was finally achieved by the mid 19th century. Jesus never mentioned anything about Krishna or Buddha in India. Muhammad wasn't to come on the scene for another 580 years. He made veiled mention about other religions with the comment about having other sheep (John 10:16) but otherwise had little to say about other major world religions. Obviously paganism and the worship of falsegods was to be strictly avoided.

In regards Genesis 17:19 this is references to the Covenants made in the Bible through the lineage of Isaac and the special relationship Yahweh had with the Jewish people. It was Moses who revealed Genesis after all. That does not deny God had a special relationship with the Arab people too. He is the God of all. God is not ethnocentric or racist. He loves all mankind.

You said---> ( Isn't that what every Christians says?)
Not this Christian, so maybe you need to rethink that one.

God is only the God of those who accepts his Son Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Christ Jesus himself made that clear, that no one comes to God the Father only thru him.
If people can not accept Christ Jesus as the Son of God, then God made that clear that he doesn't accept them either.

Notice what Jesus said here in
John 3:16--"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

How does Islam fit into that, seeing Islam does not believe that Christ Jesus being the Son of God.
That whosoever believes in Christ Jesus should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Seeing Islam does not believe, that Christ Jesus is not the Son of God.
That leaves Islam without everlasting life.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

That's right, but for some unknown reason, people have a hard time with that.

A person would stop and think, if Ishmael was that important, then why didn't Christ Jesus make any mentioning of Ishmael.
In the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus only mentioned Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. That would be sitting down in the kingdom of heaven with God.
But nothing about Ishmael.

That alone should tell people, that Isaac is more important than Ishmael.

The only thing that God did for Ishmael is to make a great nation and the descendants of Ishmael would be a wild man, and every hand would be against the descendants of Ishmael and the descendants of Ishmael would be against every man.
Look around the world, every where the descendants of Ishmael is found, every man's hand are against them.

Everything else God made a covenant with Isaac.
And in the Gospel's not one time did Christ Jesus ever mention Ishmael. Only Isaac.

I am an Arab and i agree with you. The Covenant was through Isaac, through Jesus Christ. The Quran doesn't mention the name of the nearly sacrificed son of Abraham. The Tora and the Gospel do. I checked this in Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.

Only sectarians with wishful thoughts will go against the Scriptures. Yet they claim to believe in them.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

You said---> ( Isn't that what every Christians says?)
Not this Christian, so maybe you need to rethink that one.

God is only the God of those who accepts his Son Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Christ Jesus himself made that clear, that no one comes to God the Father only thru him.
If people can not accept Christ Jesus as the Son of God, then God made that clear that he doesn't accept them either.

Notice what Jesus said here in
John 3:16--"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

How does Islam fit into that, seeing Islam does not believe that Christ Jesus being the Son of God.
That whosoever believes in Christ Jesus should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Seeing Islam does not believe, that Christ Jesus is not the Son of God.
That leaves Islam without everlasting life.

The Quran warns to call him the literal son of God, since God does not have a wife, nor does He beget, nor is He begotten.

There is nothing wrong in calling Christ the spiritual son.

The Quran actually says in 5:68 that we should uphold the Tora and the Gospel. It even says in 5:47 that we should Judge with the Gospel.

Don't be a victim of translation errors and sectarian discussions.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Of course your understanding makes more sense to you, because you are you.

You haven't answered my questions though. Do you believe that all of Genesis is literally true or does it contain in part an allegorical narrative?

There is nothing allegorical about the word Isaac. It's the name of the son of Abraham who was nearly sacrificed. According to the Hebrew Tora and the Greek Gospel. Seriously, i am doubting your reading skills now, and your intention. How can you say such a thing like 'the word Isaac is allegorical for Ishmael'...

The Arabic Quran doesn't mention the name of the son who was nearly sacrificed.
Only sectarians who haven't read the Tora and Gospel or do not believe in them, twist the Arabic word 'Ghulaam' into 'Ishmael'. And ignore the word 'Isaac' in Hebrew and Greek.

I base my understanding on the Tora, Gospel and Quran. And i double checked it in Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.

 

[PruePhillip]

Why would Muhammad be considered a false prophet?

"False" as in the standard of the bible.
Muhammad was:
1 - a violent man
2 - perjured the bible
3 - absorbed in material issues of earth and time.

 

[PruePhillip]

There is nothing allegorical about the word Isaac. It's the name of the son of Abraham who was nearly sacrificed. According to the Hebrew Tora and the Greek Gospel. Seriously, i am doubting your reading skills now, and your intention. How can you say such a thing like 'the word Isaac is allegorical for Ishmael'...

The Arabic Quran doesn't mention the name of the son who was nearly sacrificed.
Only sectarians who haven't read the Tora and Gospel or do not believe in them, twist the Arabic word 'Ghulaam' into 'Ishmael'. And ignore the word 'Isaac' in Hebrew and Greek.

I base my understanding on the Tora, Gospel and Quran. And i double checked it in Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.

If you want to quote the Quran when referencing the bible then
why not quote Mormon texts as well? They are just as valid as
the Quran.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

If you want to quote the Quran when referencing the bible then
why not quote Mormon texts as well? They are just as valid as
the Quran.

I actually read the Book of Mormon, and i found out that it contradicts the Tora, Gospel and Quran.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

"False" as in the standard of the bible.
Muhammad was:
1 - a violent man
2 - perjured the bible
3 - absorbed in material issues of earth and time.

An English translation of the Quran :

5:46 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a guidance and a light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and a lesson for the righteous.


5:47 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.


5:68 Say: "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

"False" as in the standard of the bible.
Muhammad was:
1 - a violent man
2 - perjured the bible
3 - absorbed in material issues of earth and time.

Muhammad perjured the Bible?

That is to assume the experience Muhammad had in the cave and the subsequent revelations from the angel Gabriel was false. Violence.....Were there not no other prophets who were personally involved in warfare? I find it hypocritical to make Muhammad a default military “warlord” when there were other people of scripture involved in warfare.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Lol debating with people like you is impossible. You people change the Quran to fit your own agenda. So to you is your way and to me is mine.

So, how do you explain, the claim of Quran, that Jesus said after Him, a Prophet comes whose name is Ahmad. Where in Bible Jesus said that?

 

[PruePhillip]

Muhammad perjured the Bible?

That is to assume the experience Muhammad had in the cave and the subsequent revelations from the angel Gabriel was false. Violence.....Were there not no other prophets who were personally involved in warfare? I find it hypocritical to make Muhammad a default military “warlord” when there were other people of scripture involved in warfare.

All standards of behavior to a Christian are based upon the life
and teachings of Jesus, the Messiah. He rejected the crown as
His kingdom was not of this earth.

There is no comparison between Jesus and Muhammad. Muhammad falls so far short that he cannot be held on any level remotely close to Jesus. Muhammad is clearly inferior to Christ.

This from A Comparison between Jesus and Muhammad | CARM.org

Jesus Muhammad

Death Jesus died and rose from the dead. Muhammad died and stayed dead.
Fighting Jesus never fought. Muhammad fought many many times.
Hearing from God When Jesus heard from God, he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness. (Mark 1:14-15). When Muhammad heard from God (supposedly through an angel), he cowered, was uncertain, and wanted to commit suicide. (Quran 74:1-5)
Identity Jesus claimed to be God (John 8:24; 8:58) as well as a man.
Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life. (John 14:6). Muhammad claimed to be a man.
Instructions Received From God the Father (John 5:19) Allegedly from an angel
Killing Jesus never killed anyone. Muhammad killed many.
Life Jesus had the power to take life but never did. He restored it. Muhammad had the power to take it, but he never restored it.
No one ever died in Jesus' presence. Many people died in Muhammad's presence--he killed them.
Marriage Jesus never married. Muhammad had over 20 wives and even married a nine-year-old girl.
Ministry Jesus received his calling from God directly. (Matt. 3:17).
Jesus received his commission in the daylight.

Muhammad allegedly received it from an angel (Gabriel).
Muhammad received his words in the darkness of a cave.

Ministry Length Jesus taught for 3 1/2 years. Muhammad taught for more than 20 years.
Miracles Jesus performed many miracles including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead. Muhammad's only alleged miracle was the Quran.
Prophecy Jesus fulfilled biblical prophecy about being the Messiah. Muhammad did not fulfill any biblical prophecy except the ones about false teachers (Matt. 24:24).
Sacrifice Jesus voluntarily laid his life down for others. Muhammad saved his own life many times and had others killed.
Sin Jesus never sinned. (1 Pet. 2:22) Muhammad was a sinner. (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2)
Slaves Jesus owned no slaves. Muhammad owned slaves.
Virgin Birth Jesus was virgin born. Muhammad was not virgin born.
Voice of God Jesus received and heard the direct voice of God. (Mark 1:10-11) Muhammad did not receive or hear the direct voice of God. It was an angel instead.
Women Jesus spoke well of women. Muhammad said women were 1/2 as smart as men (Hadith 3:826; 2:541), that the majority in hell will be women (Had. 1:28,301; 2:161; 7:124), and that women could be mortgaged.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

All standards of behavior to a Christian are based upon the life
and teachings of Jesus, the Messiah. He rejected the crown as
His kingdom was not of this earth.

There is no comparison between Jesus and Muhammad. Muhammad falls so far short that he cannot be held on any level remotely close to Jesus. Muhammad is clearly inferior to Christ.

This from A Comparison between Jesus and Muhammad | CARM.org

Jesus Muhammad

Death Jesus died and rose from the dead. Muhammad died and stayed dead.
Fighting Jesus never fought. Muhammad fought many many times.
Hearing from God When Jesus heard from God, he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness. (Mark 1:14-15). When Muhammad heard from God (supposedly through an angel), he cowered, was uncertain, and wanted to commit suicide. (Quran 74:1-5)
Identity Jesus claimed to be God (John 8:24; 8:58) as well as a man.
Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life. (John 14:6). Muhammad claimed to be a man.
Instructions Received From God the Father (John 5:19) Allegedly from an angel
Killing Jesus never killed anyone. Muhammad killed many.
Life Jesus had the power to take life but never did. He restored it. Muhammad had the power to take it, but he never restored it.
No one ever died in Jesus' presence. Many people died in Muhammad's presence--he killed them.
Marriage Jesus never married. Muhammad had over 20 wives and even married a nine-year-old girl.
Ministry Jesus received his calling from God directly. (Matt. 3:17).
Jesus received his commission in the daylight.

Muhammad allegedly received it from an angel (Gabriel).
Muhammad received his words in the darkness of a cave.

Ministry Length Jesus taught for 3 1/2 years. Muhammad taught for more than 20 years.
Miracles Jesus performed many miracles including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead. Muhammad's only alleged miracle was the Quran.
Prophecy Jesus fulfilled biblical prophecy about being the Messiah. Muhammad did not fulfill any biblical prophecy except the ones about false teachers (Matt. 24:24).
Sacrifice Jesus voluntarily laid his life down for others. Muhammad saved his own life many times and had others killed.
Sin Jesus never sinned. (1 Pet. 2:22) Muhammad was a sinner. (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2)
Slaves Jesus owned no slaves. Muhammad owned slaves.
Virgin Birth Jesus was virgin born. Muhammad was not virgin born.
Voice of God Jesus received and heard the direct voice of God. (Mark 1:10-11) Muhammad did not receive or hear the direct voice of God. It was an angel instead.
Women Jesus spoke well of women. Muhammad said women were 1/2 as smart as men (Hadith 3:826; 2:541), that the majority in hell will be women (Had. 1:28,301; 2:161; 7:124), and that women could be mortgaged.

A lot of what you said in opposition to Islam was wrong but I’m not in a position to go in detail with you about Qur’an. I just know there were Biblical figures involved in wars you conveniently omitted.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Muhammad perjured the Bible?

That is to assume the experience Muhammad had in the cave and the subsequent revelations from the angel Gabriel was false. Violence.....Were there not no other prophets who were personally involved in warfare? I find it hypocritical to make Muhammad a default military “warlord” when there were other people of scripture involved in warfare.

So, how do you explain, the claim of Quran, that Jesus said after Him, a Prophet comes whose name is Ahmad. Where in Bible Jesus said that?

Umm i believe in both the Gospel, Tora and the Quran.

All standards of behavior to a Christian are based upon the life
and teachings of Jesus, the Messiah. He rejected the crown as
His kingdom was not of this earth.

There is no comparison between Jesus and Muhammad. Muhammad falls so far short that he cannot be held on any level remotely close to Jesus. Muhammad is clearly inferior to Christ.

This from A Comparison between Jesus and Muhammad | CARM.org

Jesus Muhammad

Death Jesus died and rose from the dead. Muhammad died and stayed dead.
Fighting Jesus never fought. Muhammad fought many many times.
Hearing from God When Jesus heard from God, he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness. (Mark 1:14-15). When Muhammad heard from God (supposedly through an angel), he cowered, was uncertain, and wanted to commit suicide. (Quran 74:1-5)
Identity Jesus claimed to be God (John 8:24; 8:58) as well as a man.
Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life. (John 14:6). Muhammad claimed to be a man.
Instructions Received From God the Father (John 5:19) Allegedly from an angel
Killing Jesus never killed anyone. Muhammad killed many.
Life Jesus had the power to take life but never did. He restored it. Muhammad had the power to take it, but he never restored it.
No one ever died in Jesus' presence. Many people died in Muhammad's presence--he killed them.
Marriage Jesus never married. Muhammad had over 20 wives and even married a nine-year-old girl.
Ministry Jesus received his calling from God directly. (Matt. 3:17).
Jesus received his commission in the daylight.

Muhammad allegedly received it from an angel (Gabriel).
Muhammad received his words in the darkness of a cave.

Ministry Length Jesus taught for 3 1/2 years. Muhammad taught for more than 20 years.
Miracles Jesus performed many miracles including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead. Muhammad's only alleged miracle was the Quran.
Prophecy Jesus fulfilled biblical prophecy about being the Messiah. Muhammad did not fulfill any biblical prophecy except the ones about false teachers (Matt. 24:24).
Sacrifice Jesus voluntarily laid his life down for others. Muhammad saved his own life many times and had others killed.
Sin Jesus never sinned. (1 Pet. 2:22) Muhammad was a sinner. (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2)
Slaves Jesus owned no slaves. Muhammad owned slaves.
Virgin Birth Jesus was virgin born. Muhammad was not virgin born.
Voice of God Jesus received and heard the direct voice of God. (Mark 1:10-11) Muhammad did not receive or hear the direct voice of God. It was an angel instead.
Women Jesus spoke well of women. Muhammad said women were 1/2 as smart as men (Hadith 3:826; 2:541), that the majority in hell will be women (Had. 1:28,301; 2:161; 7:124), and that women could be mortgaged.

A lot of what you said can not be found in the Quran. And the hadith/narrations are fabricated, you can compare them with the Talmud or the Trinity.

The point is, Muhammad in the Quran never claimed to be a Christ, or Christ.

We all know that Christ has the highest rank in humanity, Christ is the second Adam.

We shouldn't compare a prophet with a Christ, we have many prophets, but we have a single Christ.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Umm i believe in both the Gospel, Tora and the Quran.

A lot of what you said can not be found in the Quran. And the hadith/narrations are fabricated, you can compare them with the Talmud or the Trinity.

The point is, Muhammad in the Quran never claimed to be a Christ, or Christ.

We all know that Christ has the highest rank in humanity, Christ is the second Adam.

We shouldn't compare a prophet with a Christ, we have many prophets, but we have a single Christ.

Ok talk to @PruePhillip