Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Dawnofhope]

In the context, can you explain how the woman is the Ottoman Empire? Plus, in verse 6 is a 1260 day reference and also in verse 14 there is the time, and time and half a time reference. Who are you saying this "red dragon" is? Is this the one that you say is the Umayyad's?

As you will know Abdu'l-Baha provided a detailed commentary on the 11th and 12th Chapter of the book of Revelation.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 45-61

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 67-72

The Islamic Dispensation lasted 1260 lunar years. The beginning of the Islamic Calendar until the declaration of the Bab was 1260 years. The year 1260 when the Bab declared corresponds to 1844 on the Gregorian calendar. This is a significant period of time if we consider the Christian dispensation started from the birth of Christ. Over 60% of that time has seen the concurrent rise and fall of Islam.

A central theme or motif of the Book of revelations is the corruption of G-d's revelation. Islam became corrupted immediately after Muhammad's death. The Shia Muslims believe that Muhammad intended HIs son-in-law to be His rightful successor. This wish was thwarted by Abu Bakr and Uman.

Succession to Muhammad - Wikipedia

Eventually Ali did become the leader and 4th Caliph but this was relatively short lived as he was murdered by one of the soon to be Umayyad Caliphs and the Caliphate took effect. So this was the ultimate corruption of religion for self-interested men to murder the prophet's successor then assume leadership for themselves. This kind of Machiavellian behaviour characterised the Umayyad dynasty and eventually their leaders were themselves brutally murdered and the regime came to an end in 750. So although the Umayyad Caliphate ended, its influence and corruption has been thematic of Islam throughout its history and remains until this day.

In Islam the moon and sun symbolise the twin luminaries of the heaven of G-d's revelation, prayer and fasting. These symbols have been incorporated into flags representing the Ottoman (moon) and Persian Empires (sun). So when the woman clothed in the sun and moon gives birth in Revelation 12, we are told the Messiah will emerge from the Persian/Ottoman Empires but the beastly nature of Islam tried to destroy it. The Babi movement and Baha'is were ruthlessly persecuted by both the Persians and Ottomans for 75 years knowing full well the claims of this new found religion.

So the dragon symbolised militant and corrupted Islam as exemplified by the Umayyad Caliphate. The Islamic dispensation lasted 1260 lunar years.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So Armageddon happens in Rev 16:16. In verse 15 it says that "I am coming like a thief"? You have to flip flop a lot of verses to make Baha'u'llah having come and gone before the Battle of Armageddon. But then you say Armageddon is when the Jews get defeated and exiled? Is any of this from official Baha'i writings?

Its simply history.

The Battle of Meggido where the Jews were defeated.

Battle of Megiddo (609 BC) - Wikipedia

The Battle of Meggido where the British forces took on the Ottomans and decisively defeated them.

Battle of Megiddo (1918) - Wikipedia

The evidence for a Baha'i exegesis just keeps getting stronger, while the Christians are all over the map devising their next silly theories.

Catastrophe, Armageddon and Millennium

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's beyond me, how they get that.

Try adding numbers

661 + 5 = ?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Off course you do not see them.
Refer to verse 3:7 of Quran. There are verses which are clear, and there are verses which are not clear. Those verses which are about 12 Imams are of those which are not clear. For example, in a verse in Quran, it says God created stars to protect heaven. These stars according to traditions are allusions to the Imams. And the heaven is the Religion of God. Just because there is no clear verse in the Quran about 12 Imams, does not mean there is no unclear or figurative verse about them.

Lol debating with people like you is impossible. You people change the Quran to fit your own agenda. So to you is your way and to me is mine.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Try adding numbers

661 + 5 = ?

There's no adding numbers, Not when Christ Jesus made it very simple in the book of Revelation, what the number 666
Stands for and who it represents.

Just a reminder, that the book of Revelation does belongs to Christ Jesus, so there is no one that will know more about the book of Revelation than Christ Jesus, seeing the book of Revelation belongs to only Christ Jesus and no one else.

So the bottom line is, it doesn't matter what someone else may say about the book of Revelation, What truly matters is what Christ Jesus has to say about his book of Revelation.

So you can say all you want about what others may say about the book of Revelation, It's what Christ Jesus has to say that truly matters.about his book of Revelation.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth."

From where is this quote? This clearly contradicts the Tora and the Gospel.

The quote is from the writings of Baha'u'llah. I agree that it contradicts the clear text of the Torah. I'm not aware of anywhere in the Gospels Jesus affirms it was Isaac that was sacrificed though there is a mention in James 2:20.

You would need to ask yourself how important is it to you that it was Isaac, not Ismael that was sacrificed. You would also want to know to what extent the story is a mythological embellishment based on real or fictional characters. Do you think all Genesis is literally true, for example the first nine chapters? Was the earth really created in six days six thousand years ago? Did a serpent really talk to Eve? Was there really a worldwide flood where all the animals were protected on Noah's ark?

The Quran doesn't mention the name of the sacrificed one.

I checked in Greek and Hebrew and Arabic.
The Quran used the word 'Ghulaam', which means son, and in Hebrew and in Greek it says 'Isaac', which is the name of the son who was nearly sacrificed.

You have just contradicted yourself. I agree the Quran does not mention Isaac or Ishmael explicitly. Based in traditions of Hadiths there is a strong case to be made that it was Ishmael, not Isaac according to Islamic theology as per the link I provided. I appreciate you reject all Hadiths as fabrications but that is not the belief of most Muslims, nor do Baha'i belief this to be true. We do agree that some Hadiths are fabrications.

So these people are changing the word son in the Quran. And making it Ishmael. And they are denying the word Isaac in the Tora and the Gospel. So they are the ones who are changing the Tora, Gospel and the Quran! And not the other way around.

I personally find it to be one of those 'how many angels on a pinhead?' discussions that has no relevance for anything practical in the world we live in today. Christian apologists raise it to have a crack at Muslims and its used against the Baha'is in the same manner here. Its a silly argument that literalist get themselves in a twist over. I personally don't really care if it were Isaac, Ishmael, or its just a myth. Its a useful allegorical story about sacrifice though that the Christians have used to good effect to prefigure the sacrifice of Christ.

Genesis is considered to have been written around the Babylonian exile period of the Jews thousands of years after any of it happened.

Book of Genesis - Wikipedia

 

[Faithofchristian]

The quote is from the writings of Baha'u'llah. I agree that it contradicts the clear text of the Torah. I'm not aware of anywhere in the Gospels Jesus affirms it was Isaac that was sacrificed though there is a mention in James 2:20.

You would need to ask yourself how important is it to you that it was Isaac, not Ismael that was sacrificed. You would also want to know to what extent the story a mythological embellishment based on real characters. Do you think all Genesis is literally true, for example the first nine chapters.





You have just contradicted yourself. I agree the Quran does not mention Isaac or Ishmael explicitly. Based in traditions of Hadiths there is a strong case to be made that it was Ishmael, not Isaac according to Islamic theology. I appreciate you reject all Hadiths as fabrications but that is not the belief of most Muslims, nor do Baha'i belief this to be true. We do agree that some Hadiths are fabrications.



I personally find it to be one of those how many angels on a pinhead discussions that has no real relevance for anything practical in the world we live in today. I personally don't really care if it were Isaac, Ishmael, or its just a myth. Its a useful allegorical story about sacrifice though that the Christians have used to good effect to prefigure the sacrifice of Christ.

Genesis is considered to have been written around the Babylonian exile period of the Jews thousands of years after any of it happened.

Book of Genesis - Wikipedia

If according to Muhammad in the Qu'ran that it was Ishmael who Abraham sacrifice.
Then why is there so much emphasis on Isaac.
Why did God establish his covenant with Isaac and not Ishmael.

Genesis 17:19--" And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed, and you shalt call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and his seed after him"

So why is it that God makes his covenant promises with Isaac and not Ishmael if Ishmael is to be so important.

Why is it that Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, But Christ Jesus never speaks about Ishmael.

But yet in the gospel's Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, but never speaks nothing about Ishmael.
Christ Jesus mention Isaac in
Matthew 8:11, Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26.
Luke 3:34, Luke 13:28, Luke 20:37.

So why does Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, But yet never speaks of Ishmael not one time in the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus said in Matthew 8:11---"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven"

Why is it that Christ Jesus said that many shall come from the East and West and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
But yet Christ Jesus makes no mentioning of Ishmael.
But yet according to muhammad in the Qu'ran Ishmael is to the important one.

Buy yet in the gospels Christ Jesus makes no mentioning of Ishmael.
Only Isaac.

My other question is, why is it that you put so much emphasis on going to
Wikipedia.
When all it is, is man's teachings,
When Christ Jesus himself condemned the teachings of man's in
Matthew 15:7-9--"
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

You know the teachings of man's makes void the word of God.
Why is it that people put more emphasis on man's teachings than people do on God's teachings.

If Ishmael is to be so important, than why does Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, but Christ Jesus never mentions Ishmael in the Gospels.

But according to Muhammad in the Qu'ran Ishmael is to be the important one.
But yet Christ Jesus never speaks and never said anything about Ishmael and never even as much as mention Ishmael name in the Gospel's.
Of a matter of fact Ishmael is never mention at all in the new testament scriptures.

 

[Dawnofhope]

There's no adding numbers, Not when Christ Jesus made it very simple in the book of Revelation, what the number 666
Stands for and who it represents.

Excuse me if I sound cynical, but the 'Christians' I've talked to over the years have all made contradictory statements about what 666 means.

In recent decades, conspiracy-minded individuals who combine idiosyncratic interpretations of the Bible with fears that evil governmental or religious forces are overtaking society have variously interpreted 666 as a reference to the United Nations, some presidents of the United States, the Washington Monument, and the European Union. Given the commercial associations with 666 in Revelation, such interpreters also commonly identify the flexible symbol with the modern barcode system, the “www” of the Internet’s prefix for the World Wide Web, RFID seals used for tracking and identification, and smart cards used for cashless swiping. Such conspiratorial speculation unhelpfully feeds the phobias of some, whose fear of the number 666 has yielded a new term: “hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia.”

666 in Popular Culture and History

If you have a theory then state what it is.

The Umayyad caliphate was established 666 years after the birth of Christ, after Muhammad's successor Ali was murdered.

On 19 Ramadan AH 40, which would correspond to 27 January 661, while praying in the Great Mosque of Kufa, Ali was attacked by the Kharijite Abd-al-Rahman ibn Muljam. He was wounded by ibn Muljam's poison-coated sword while prostrating in the Fajr prayer.

Ali - Wikipedia

This murderous act lead to establishment of the Umayyad Caliphate.

The Umayyads continued the Muslim conquests, incorporating the Transoxiana, Sindh, the Maghreb and the Iberian Peninsula (Al-Andalus) into the Muslim world. At its greatest extent, the Umayyad Caliphate covered 11,100,000 km2 (4,300,000 sq mi) and 33 million people, making it one of the largest empires in history in both area and proportion of the world's population.

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

So the lands they conquered extended the empire to include the Roman dominion around Damascus; and the Persian, Arabian and Egyptian dominions, together with the dominion of Africa (Tunis, Morocco and Algeria); the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turks of Transoxania. The Umayyads had power over these seven countries and dominions which represents the seven heads of the dragon in Revelation 12: 3-4

The ten horns mean the names of the Umayyad rulers—that is, without repetition, there were ten names of rulers, meaning ten names of commanders and chiefs—the first is Abú Súfyán and the last Marván—but several of them bear the same name. So there are two Muáviyá, three Yazíd, two Valíd, and two Marván; but if the names were counted without repetition 70 there would be ten. The Umayyads, of whom the first was Abú Súfyán, Amír of Mecca and chief of the dynasty of the Umayyads, and the last was Marván, destroyed the third part of the holy and saintly people of the lineage of Muḥammad who were like the stars of heaven.

Just a reminder, that the book of Revelation does belongs to Christ Jesus, so there is no one that will know more about the book of Revelation than Christ Jesus, seeing the book of Revelation belongs to only Christ Jesus and no one else.

The book of Revelation belongs to us all. Those that bear the name 'Christian' but do not reflect any of the characteristics of Christians don't impress me.

So the bottom line is, it doesn't matter what someone else may say about the book of Revelation, What truly matters is what Christ Jesus has to say about his book of Revelation.

How many posts have you contributed to this thread and how little you have said. You haven't even managed to say what 666 and the dragon represents.You're going round in circles like a cat chasing your tail.

So you can say all you want about what others may say about the book of Revelation, It's what Christ Jesus has to say that truly matters.about his book of Revelation.

So has Jesus appeared to you and provided you the meaning? Perhaps you are reading the text literally? Maybe your imagination tells you the answers like the other Christians who formulate ?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

The quote is from the writings of Baha'u'llah. I agree that it contradicts the clear text of the Torah. I'm not aware of anywhere in the Gospels Jesus affirms it was Isaac that was sacrificed though there is a mention in James 2:20.

You would need to ask yourself how important is it to you that it was Isaac, not Ismael that was sacrificed. You would also want to know to what extent the story is a mythological embellishment based on real or fictional characters. Do you think all Genesis is literally true, for example the first nine chapters? Was the earth really created in six days six thousand years ago? Did a serpent really talk to Eve? Was there really a worldwide flood where all the animals were protected on Noah's ark?





You have just contradicted yourself. I agree the Quran does not mention Isaac or Ishmael explicitly. Based in traditions of Hadiths there is a strong case to be made that it was Ishmael, not Isaac according to Islamic theology as per the link I provided. I appreciate you reject all Hadiths as fabrications but that is not the belief of most Muslims, nor do Baha'i belief this to be true. We do agree that some Hadiths are fabrications.



I personally find it to be one of those 'how many angels on a pinhead?' discussions that has no relevance for anything practical in the world we live in today. Christian apologists raise it to have a crack at Muslims and its used against the Baha'is in the same manner here. Its a silly argument that literalist get themselves in a twist over. I personally don't really care if it were Isaac, Ishmael, or its just a myth. Its a useful allegorical story about sacrifice though that the Christians have used to good effect to prefigure the sacrifice of Christ.

Genesis is considered to have been written around the Babylonian exile period of the Jews thousands of years after any of it happened.

Book of Genesis - Wikipedia

Hebrews 11:17 i checked it in Greek. And the Gospel clearly mentioned the name of the nearly sacrificed son. And it's Isaac.

Both Tora and Gospel say it's Isaac. I checked it in Hebrew and Greek. And the Quran doesn't mention the name. So it's Isaac, no doubt.

The sectarians will twist it because of their wishful thinking.

 

[Dawnofhope]

If according to Muhammad in the Qu'ran that it was Ishmael who Abraham sacrifice.
Then why is there so much emphasis on Isaac.
Why did God establish his covenant with Isaac and not Ishmael.

Genesis 17:19--" And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed, and you shalt call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and his seed after him"

So why is it that God makes his covenant promises with Isaac and not Ishmael if Ishmael is to be so important.

Why is it that Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, But Christ Jesus never speaks about Ishmael.

But yet in the gospel's Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, but never speaks nothing about Ishmael.
Christ Jesus mention Isaac in
Matthew 8:11, Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26.
Luke 3:34, Luke 13:28, Luke 20:37.

So why does Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, But yet never speaks of Ishmael not one time in the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus said in Matthew 8:11---"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven"

The Jewish people were descended from Abraham through Isaac and the Arab people were descended from Abraham through Ishmael. All the quotes from the gospel emphasise that lineage and make no mention of Isaac being sacrificed. However God was clear that He would make a nation out of Ishmael just as He made a nation out of Isaac (Genesis 21:12-13).

My other question is, why is it that you put so much emphasis on going to
Wikipedia.
When all it is, is man's teachings,
When Christ Jesus himself condemned the teachings of man's in
Matthew 15:7-9--"
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

You know the teachings of man's makes void the word of God.
Why is it that people put more emphasis on man's teachings than people do on God's teachings.

Knowledge of history and science are important to provide context to the sacred writings we discuss. Wikipedia is a relatively neutral source of information and does make efforts to be scholarly in it complitation of the facts ensuring that its well referenced. In my exprience the Christians that have the poorest understanding of the bible;
1/ Ignore the historical and textural context
2/ Have poor reasoning skills

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Guys 666 symbolizes the system of wealth of the anti-Christ. If you read the Old Testament, 666 is also used a lot by Solomon and the Temple.

Can we now stop guessing and close this case ?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

If according to Muhammad in the Qu'ran that it was Ishmael who Abraham sacrifice.
Then why is there so much emphasis on Isaac.
Why did God establish his covenant with Isaac and not Ishmael.

Genesis 17:19--" And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed, and you shalt call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and his seed after him"

So why is it that God makes his covenant promises with Isaac and not Ishmael if Ishmael is to be so important.

Why is it that Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, But Christ Jesus never speaks about Ishmael.

But yet in the gospel's Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, but never speaks nothing about Ishmael.
Christ Jesus mention Isaac in
Matthew 8:11, Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26.
Luke 3:34, Luke 13:28, Luke 20:37.

So why does Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, But yet never speaks of Ishmael not one time in the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus said in Matthew 8:11---"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven"

Why is it that Christ Jesus said that many shall come from the East and West and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
But yet Christ Jesus makes no mentioning of Ishmael.
But yet according to muhammad in the Qu'ran Ishmael is to the important one.

Buy yet in the gospels Christ Jesus makes no mentioning of Ishmael.
Only Isaac.

My other question is, why is it that you put so much emphasis on going to
Wikipedia.
When all it is, is man's teachings,
When Christ Jesus himself condemned the teachings of man's in
Matthew 15:7-9--"
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

You know the teachings of man's makes void the word of God.
Why is it that people put more emphasis on man's teachings than people do on God's teachings.

If Ishmael is to be so important, than why does Christ Jesus speaks more about Isaac, but Christ Jesus never mentions Ishmael in the Gospels.

But according to Muhammad in the Qu'ran Ishmael is to be the important one.
But yet Christ Jesus never speaks and never said anything about Ishmael and never even as much as mention Ishmael name in the Gospel's.
Of a matter of fact Ishmael is never mention at all in the new testament scriptures.

The Quran doesn't mention the name of the son of Abraham that was nearly sacrificed. Lets stop with wishful thinking. The name of who the sacrificed son is, is not in the Quran. It says in Arabic 'ghulaam' which means son.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hebrews 11:17

OK

So who wrote Hebrews and for what purpose?

What's the context of this verse?

Should we consider everything that is written in Genesis as literal historic fact?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

OK

So who wrote Hebrews and for what purpose?

What's the context of this verse?

Should we consider everything that is written in Genesis as literal historic fact?

The Hebrew Tora and the Greek Gospel say that it was Isaac. The Quran doesn't mention the name of the son who was nearly sacrificed.

Can we please stop saying that the Quran says it was Ishmael? Because the Quran doesn't say that. It's Isaac, because the Quran confirms the Tora and the Gospel, and told us to uphold the Tora and the Gospel and to judge with the Gospel.

I checked it in Hebrew, Greek and Arabic. So there is not a single atom of doubt.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Excuse me if I sound cynical, but the 'Christians' I've talked to over the years have all made contradictory statements about what 666 means.

In recent decades, conspiracy-minded individuals who combine idiosyncratic interpretations of the Bible with fears that evil governmental or religious forces are overtaking society have variously interpreted 666 as a reference to the United Nations, some presidents of the United States, the Washington Monument, and the European Union. Given the commercial associations with 666 in Revelation, such interpreters also commonly identify the flexible symbol with the modern barcode system, the “www” of the Internet’s prefix for the World Wide Web, RFID seals used for tracking and identification, and smart cards used for cashless swiping. Such conspiratorial speculation unhelpfully feeds the phobias of some, whose fear of the number 666 has yielded a new term: “hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia.”

666 in Popular Culture and History

If you have a theory then state what it is.

The Umayyad caliphate was established 666 years after the birth of Christ, after Muhammad's successor Ali was murdered.

On 19 Ramadan AH 40, which would correspond to 27 January 661, while praying in the Great Mosque of Kufa, Ali was attacked by the Kharijite Abd-al-Rahman ibn Muljam. He was wounded by ibn Muljam's poison-coated sword while prostrating in the Fajr prayer.

Ali - Wikipedia

This murderous act lead to establishment of the Umayyad Caliphate.

The Umayyads continued the Muslim conquests, incorporating the Transoxiana, Sindh, the Maghreb and the Iberian Peninsula (Al-Andalus) into the Muslim world. At its greatest extent, the Umayyad Caliphate covered 11,100,000 km2 (4,300,000 sq mi) and 33 million people, making it one of the largest empires in history in both area and proportion of the world's population.

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

So the lands they conquered extended the empire to include the Roman dominion around Damascus; and the Persian, Arabian and Egyptian dominions, together with the dominion of Africa (Tunis, Morocco and Algeria); the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turks of Transoxania. The Umayyads had power over these seven countries and dominions which represents the seven heads of the dragon in Revelation 12: 3-4

The ten horns mean the names of the Umayyad rulers—that is, without repetition, there were ten names of rulers, meaning ten names of commanders and chiefs—the first is Abú Súfyán and the last Marván—but several of them bear the same name. So there are two Muáviyá, three Yazíd, two Valíd, and two Marván; but if the names were counted without repetition 70 there would be ten. The Umayyads, of whom the first was Abú Súfyán, Amír of Mecca and chief of the dynasty of the Umayyads, and the last was Marván, destroyed the third part of the holy and saintly people of the lineage of Muḥammad who were like the stars of heaven.



The book of Revelation belongs to us all. Those that bear the name 'Christian' but do not reflect any of the characteristics of Christians don't impress me.



How many posts have you contributed to this thread and how little you have said. You haven't even managed to say what 666 and the dragon represents.You're going round in circles like a cat chasing your tail.



So has Jesus appeared to you and provided you the meaning? Perhaps you are reading the text literally? Maybe your imagination tells you the answers like the other Christians who formulate ?

As you said above ( Excuse me if I sound cynical, but the 'Christians' I've talked to over the years have all made contradictory statements about what 666 means)

That's all because those Christians follow the teachings of man's, which makes the word of God void.
And not the teachings of God and Christ Jesus.
Note that Christ Jesus condemned the teachings of man's in Matthew 15:7-9--
--"You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

You see I'm not one of those Christians. But follow the teachings of God and Christ Jesus.
Therefore, the number 666, Christ Jesus in his own words tells exactly what the number 666 stands for and who in his book of Revelation.

But for some unknown reason, your having a hard time accepting what Christ Jesus is saying what the number 666 stands for and who.
I don't care what man will say, I care only what Christ Jesus will say. And that's all.

As I don't care what those other Christians will say, they are only going by what they are told by their pastors and preachers will them about the number 666, when those pastors and preachers haven't a clue or idea what the number 666 stands to represent and who. So they tell people whatever they want, knowing that the people will believe them no matter what they say.

I go by what Christ Jesus will say only.

You seem to think that I'm one of those other Christians, I am not one of them.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Guys 666 symbolizes the system of wealth of the anti-Christ. If you read the Old Testament, 666 is also used a lot by Solomon and the Temple.

Can we now stop guessing and close this case ?

You'll need to provide a little more info if you want to provide a credible exegesis to Revelation

The Abassids or second beast (Revelation 13:11) that followed the Umayyad dynasty certainly had an economic system that involved Christians and Jews (Dhimmi) having to pay taxes (Jizya).
Dhimmi - Wikipedia

Revelation 13:16-17

I'n just getting started. How about you?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

You'll need to provide a little more info if you want to provide a credible exegesis to Revelation

The Abassids or second beast (Revelation 13:11) that followed the Umayyad dynasty certainly had an economic system that involved Christians and Jews (Dhimmi) having to pay taxes (Jizya).
Dhimmi - Wikipedia

Revelation 13:16-17

I'n just getting started. How about you?

Well i base my understanding on the term 666 which is used in the Previous Revelations. I analyzed how 666 is used in Previous Scriptures. And it was always about gold/wealth/Temple etc. That's why i think the anti-Christ can be linked to the Temple, the owner of it would probably be the man who symbolizes the 666, since 666 is also used in a positive sense by King Solomon.

Do the Bahai believe that the Beast were the Khalifates? Or are you the one who came with that understanding yourself?

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Jewish people were descended from Abraham through Isaac and the Arab people were descended from Abraham through Ishmael. All the quotes from the gospel emphasise that lineage and make no mention of Isaac being sacrificed. However God was clear that He would make a nation out of Ishmael just as He made a nation out of Isaac (Genesis 21:12-13).




Knowledge of history and science are important to provide context to the sacred writings we discuss. Wikipedia is a relatively neutral source of information and does make efforts to be scholarly in it complitation of the facts ensuring that its well referenced. In my exprience the Christians that have the poorest understanding of the bible;
1/ Ignore the historical and textural context
2/ Have poor reasoning skills

Yeah and that's all Ishmael got from God is a promise to be a great nation.

If Ishmael was that important, than why didn't Christ Jesus make any mentioning of Ishmael in the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus only mentioned, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.
But not a thing about Ishmael in the Gospel's.
Have you any idea why Christ Jesus made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 17:19.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Hebrew Tora and the Greek Gospel say that it was Isaac. The Quran doesn't mention the name of the son who was nearly sacrificed.

Can we please stop saying that the Quran says it was Ishmael? Because the Quran doesn't say that. It's Isaac, because the Quran confirms the Tora and the Gospel, and told us to uphold the Tora and the Gospel and to judge with the Gospel.

I checked it in Hebrew, Greek and Arabic. So there is not a single atom of doubt.

The Quran doesn't explicitly mention a name and no Muslim would claim that the Quran says Isaac. Are you seriously saying your translation is better than all the translations that have gone before?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Yeah and that's all Ishmael got from God is a promise to be a great nation.

If Ishmael was that important, than why didn't Christ Jesus make any mentioning of Ishmael in the Gospel's.

Christ Jesus only mentioned, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.
But not a thing about Ishmael in the Gospel's.
Have you any idea why Christ Jesus made the promises to Abraham in Genesis 17:19.

YHVH made the promise to Abraham. Because through Isaac, Jesus Christ was born. And Jesus Christ was the sacrificed Lamb.