Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Dawnofhope]

I guess what gives me pause, @adrian009 is the fact that there are virtually no Christian scholars who support this line of thinking. Are there any Christian scholars who see merit in this Muslim perspective? It is little surprise that Muslims would hallucinate Muhammad into texts, but I'm simply unaware of any reputable Christian (or Jewish) scholars agreeing with the assertion.

@Tumah I am wrong on this (that it's pretty much a Muslim only belief (promoted by some Bahai's too)) who see Muhammad mentioned in the Bible?

No Christian scholars will support Islam in the Bible because if they did they would be Muslim scholars instead. It is the same deal for Jewish scholars. Many Jewish scholars will argue there is not one verse in the Tanakh that refers to Jesus.

Traditionally Muslim scholars have taken the perspective the NT and Torah are corrupted and superseded by the Quran. So its a relatively recent historic development that more Muslims are arguing the Bible is authentic and it does mention Islam. Of course its something the Baha'is have been saying from the mid 19th century.

 

[YmirGF]

No Christian scholars will support Islam in the Bible because if they did they would be Muslim scholars instead. It is the same deal for Jewish scholars. Many Jewish scholars will argue there is not one verse in the Tanakh that refers to Jesus.

Traditionally Muslim scholars have taken the perspective the NT and Torah are corrupted and superseded by the Quran. So its a relatively recent historic development that more Muslims are arguing the Bible is authentic and it does mention Islam. Of course its something the Baha'is have been saying from the mid 19th century.

How do you think things would go if Christian's and Jews started dissecting the Qur'an finding spurious bits here and there and launched into similar laughable claims. I wonder how Muslims would react?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you think things would go if Christian's and Jews started dissecting the Qur'an finding spurious bits here and there and launched into similar laughable claims. I wonder how Muslims would react?

What retrofit previous revelations into the new scripture?

That is already done, as those scriputlres already mention and support the Revelation/s that came before.

Regards Tony

 

[Cacotopia]

Considering it's an older religion I highly doubt it. Yes there are similarities. but I think that is due to religion takes snippets off of thei predecessors when they make a new one.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How do you think things would go if Christian's and Jews started dissecting the Qur'an finding spurious bits here and there and launched into similar laughable claims. I wonder how Muslims would react?

Hard to say. Some Muslims take themselves too seriously. We all need to lighten up and enjoy the ride.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think that a lot would be explicitly mentioned if the Bible were prophetic.
Personally, I don't think that it is. The exception being the prophets during the Iron Age who were delivering messages to the people of Israel that they believed were from their God. These messages were only for Israel IMO, and not intended to be interpreted in the ways that later religions have done (though perhaps a Jewish person will correct me).

I have a lot of respect for Judaism, and it is quite strange to see so many non-Jews explaining Jewish people's own scriptures to them. I would imagine that it gets frustrating at times.

I have a lot of respect for Judaism too. I also have a lot of respect for Christianity and Islam. They all seem to have much more in common than not...like their monotheistic G-d for example.

I personally see the Tanakh as being from G-d and His gift to humanity revealed through the Jewish people.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

An English translation of the Quran :

2:285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers: "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said: "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

5:68 Say: "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.


5:47 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.


3:3 He sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between his hands; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.

PS: Lets not start about how the 'Muslims' deviated from the Quran, and how they are anti-Bible atm. It's all politics. But as you see, the Quran is pro-Bible!

 

[Dawnofhope]

No. They can still be words of god without needing to refer to each other. Why would any abrahamic religion need to have prophecies and refer to by the former in all three books if gods word is 1. In you and 2. Eternal?

Why does god need to have books connect to each other and with sequels in order to be his words?

Islam is a totally different religion than christianity. In what context is Muhammad and his views on god mirror that of christ? (Not abstract like love and grace).

I mean I'm no scholar, muslim, christian, nor Jew but, like any other topic, there has to be some logic between accepting thing without needing to connect them together, right?

Anyone can read into any sacred book. No. The bible doesn't teach of Islam. A lot of Islam's teachings aren't even the same as the bible. They both say they are from god but why does finding reference in each other's books important to confirm the source of its writings?

The Abrahamic faiths have a great deal more in common than not.

Compare Christianity, Islam and Judaism

For example each believes in a monotheistic G-d who reveals Himself through prophets that are recorded in books. You may not believe any of that, but that is the sincere belief of the Abrahamics. If G-d's intention has been to make Himself known through such an approach, the results speak for themselves.




The problem is making sense of the divergent teachings of their founders. If we consider their revelations span thousands of years across vastly different cultures, it is only natural there will be differences.

 

[Dawnofhope]

An English translation of the Quran :

2:285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers: "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said: "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

5:68 Say: "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.


5:47 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.


3:3 He sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between his hands; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.

PS: Lets not start about how the 'Muslims' deviated from the Quran, and how they are anti-Bible atm. It's all politics. But as you see, the Quran is pro-Bible!

There is no doubt for either of us, the Quran positively affirms the Bible. The question is, does the Bible positively affirm Islam? Of course Islam was revealed nearly 600 years after Christ was crucified and about 500 years after the last book in the New testament (Revelations) was revealed. So the question then relates to biblical prophecy. What, if any of the biblical verses, refer to Islam.

From a Muslim perspective we have...

Muhammad and the Bible - Wikipedia

From a Baha'i perspective we have....

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 45-61

 

[Riders]

Actually the Muslims are in the bible, the good Samaritan .I have been told Samaratans are a combination of Muslin and Jewish,

 

[Dawnofhope]

Actually the Muslims are in the bible, the good Samaritan .I have been told Samaratans are a combination of Muslin and Jewish,

That is true. Most of the Samaritans converted to Islam during the 17th century under the Ottomans.

Samaritans - Wikipedia

 

[PruePhillip]

As far as I am aware the only references might be the cautions about false prophets

I suspect just ONE modern church is mentioned in the bible.

...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads....
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication....
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [or hills], on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation:17:3,4,18,9

This is the Roman Catholic Church.
Cannot be any other.
The "seven hills" is another name for Rome.
At the height of its power the RCC reigned over kings and emperors.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I suspect just ONE modern church is mentioned in the bible.

...I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads....
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication....
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [or hills], on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation:17:3,4,18,9

This is the Roman Catholic Church.
Cannot be any other.
The "seven hills" is another name for Rome.
At the height of its power the RCC reigned over kings and emperors.

A Baha'i exegesis is the beast refers to militant Islam or more specifically the Umayyad dynasty that started 661 AD and lasted until 750 AD..

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

This resulted in the rapid spread of Islam throughout the Middle East, into Palestine, Africa, Europe and Asia.

The number 666 refers to this dynasty and this number is mentioned just once on the book of Revelation 13:18. As Christ was thought to be born sometime between 4 - 6 BC then the length of time elapsed from His birth to the start of this empire is 666 years.

Revelation 12:3-4 reads “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

These signs are an allusion to the dynasty of the Umayyads who dominated the Muḥammadan religion. Seven heads and seven crowns mean seven countries and dominions over which the Umayyads had power: they were the Roman dominion around Damascus; and the Persian, Arabian and Egyptian dominions, together with the dominion of Africa—that is to say, Tunis, Morocco and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turks of Transoxania. The Umayyads had power over these countries. The ten horns mean the names of the Umayyad rulers—that is, without repetition, there were ten names of rulers, meaning ten names of commanders and chiefs—the first is Abú Súfyán and the last Marván—but several of them bear the same name. So there are two Muáviyá, three Yazíd, two Valíd, and two Marván; but if the names were counted without repetition 70 there would be ten. The Umayyads, of whom the first was Abú Súfyán, Amír of Mecca and chief of the dynasty of the Umayyads, and the last was Marván, destroyed the third part of the holy and saintly people of the lineage of Muḥammad who were like the stars of heaven.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 67-72

 

[Deeje]

Nor have I. Then again I've never seen the word Christianity specifically mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. Does that mean the Hebrew Bible doesn't mention Christianity?

Is this about semantics?

Who created religion? Not God. What God created was a need in his human children for worship. When humans disconnected from their God in Eden, they still had that need to worship, so they eventually created a lot of gods for themselves to accommodate what they wanted to do, not necessarily doing what God wanted them to do.

God did not leave his children in the dark however, so by means of his prophets and by his written word, he provided guidance for them as he gradually revealed his purpose to mankind. He told us how to worship him acceptably and who were his true prophets and how we can all inherit the coming Kingdom.

He has guided his people all through history, and continues to do so to this day. At the end of the time allotted for humankind to explore all their options independent of him, he will re-establish his sovereign rule over this earth and those who do not want to accept his terms for citizenship in his Kingdom will be denied access to life. "Sheep or goats" that is all we can be.....we know how we see ourselves...but how does God see us?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Considering it's an older religion I highly doubt it. Yes there are similarities. but I think that is due to religion takes snippets off of thei predecessors when they make a new one.

That is what all religions do. They build on the old to bring the new. From an Abrahamic perspective, G-d reveals Himself through successive prophets to make Himself known. So for Muslims and Baha’is there is a clear lineage of prophets that begin with Adam and end with Muhammad. The Baha’is extend the concept further to include the entirety of humanities religious experience across the globe and through out history.

Progressive revelation (Bahá'í) - Wikipedia

 

[Marcion]

That is what all religions do. They build on the old to bring the new. From an Abrahamic perspective, G-d reveals Himself through successive prophets to make Himself known. So for Muslims and Baha’is there is a clear lineage of prophets that begin with Adam and end with Muhammad. The Baha’is extend the concept further to include the entirety of humanities religious experience across the globe and through out history.

You cannot unify the irrational, it just doesn't work that way.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why is there nothing about climate change in any of the religious scriptures?

God sent forty days of rain and flooded the whole world.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone hailing on them. I doubt if those were normal weather patterns. God also stopped the Sun for a day. And, God's going to do a whole bunch of horrible things that are talked about in Revelation... like turning the oceans and the rivers into blood. That has gotta have an effect on the climate. So why worry what we humans are doing to destroy the planet. God's handy work is far greater than anything we could ever do..

 

[Dawnofhope]

Is this about semantics?

Who created religion? Not God. What God created was a need in his human children for worship. When humans disconnected from their God in Eden, they still had that need to worship, so they eventually created a lot of gods for themselves to accommodate what they wanted to do, not necessarily doing what God wanted them to do.

God did not leave his children in the dark however, so by means of his prophets and by his written word, he provided guidance for them as he gradually revealed his purpose to mankind. He told us how to worship him acceptably and who were his true prophets and how we can all inherit the coming Kingdom.

He has guided his people all through history, and continues to do so to this day. At the end of the time allotted for humankind to explore all their options independent of him, he will re-establish his sovereign rule over this earth and those who do not want to accept his terms for citizenship in his Kingdom will be denied access to life. "Sheep or goats" that is all we can be.....we know how we see ourselves...but how does God see us?

How G-d sees us is clear from His prophets or Chosen Ones. However if we accept some of His prophets and reject others then God would appear to be the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). As Jesus was the word of God (John 1:1) then man needs every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).

 

[CG Didymus]

There is no doubt for either of us, the Quran positively affirms the Bible. The question is, does the Bible positively affirm Islam? Of course Islam was revealed nearly 600 years after Christ was crucified and about 500 years after the last book in the New testament (Revelations) was revealed. So the question then relates to biblical prophecy. What, if any of the biblical verses, refer to Islam.

From a Muslim perspective we have...

Muhammad and the Bible - Wikipedia

From a Baha'i perspective we have....

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 45-61

I can't wait to get into Revelation again, especially the "Three Woes". But, for now, if Islam affirms Judaism and Christianity, and if Christianity affirms Judaism, then who does Judaism affirm?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I can't wait to get into Revelation again, especially the "Three Woes". But, for now, if Islam affirms Judaism and Christianity, and if Christianity affirms Judaism, then who does Judaism affirm?

Judaism affirms Judaism.

Pleased to hear your passion for the book of Revelation has returned. This is certainly an appropriate thread for such a discussion as there are many verses and chapters that can be linked to the history of Islam.