Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Dawnofhope]

That is kind of a no-brainer to us Baha'is, huh...
Interpretation of the scriptures is the whole ball of wax. the whole ball...
And once someone is dead set on their particular interpretation it is near impossible to pry them loose.
Christians could say the same thing about the Baha'is, but we are not waiting for anyone, that's the 100-dollar difference...

It must be tough gig being a born again Christian expecting Jesus to appear on those clouds any day now. It could be very frustrating waiting around for a miracle to drop out of the sky.

 

[Trailblazer]

It must be tough gig being a born again Christian expecting Jesus to appear on those clouds any day now. It could be very frustrating waiting around for a miracle to drop out of the sky.

That is one way to look at it, but the other way to look at it is that they have something to look forward to in the future..... The sad thing is that it is not going to happen so it is like planning a party where nobody ever shows up, over and over and over again.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That is one way to look at it, but the other way to look at it is that they have something to look forward to in the future..... The sad thing is that it is not going to happen so it is like planning a party where nobody ever shows up, over and over and over again.

LOL

I tend to think that some hope, even false hope is better than no hope. Sometimes misplaced ideas can border on being delusional though, like some of this weird stuff that's gong to transpire from literal fulfilment of prophecy.

Then again I feel pretty hopeful based on this Persia guy who managed to get under the skin of a lot of Muslims...enough to be exiled and imprisoned for 40 years.

Internet discussions groups about religion....its a great place to be!

 

[Trailblazer]

I tend to think that some hope, even false hope is better than no hope.

Well, maybe, but the problem with waiting for the same Jesus is that they will never recognize Christ in His new attire, because they will keep waiting for Jesus....

Then again I feel pretty hopeful based on this Persia guy who managed to get under the skin of a lot of Muslims...enough to be exiled and imprisoned for 40 years.

I place all my hope in Him, and that other Persian who came to announce Him, He was cooler than cool.

Internet discussions groups about religion....its a great place to be!

I know, and now I got myself re-involved on two other forums, I will probably be sorry for that.

 

[Faithofchristian]

A more respectful manner of communicating would be to say we have a different point of view. Instead your thinking is "I'm right, so you must be wrong". That's how many people who call themselves Christians think. That's why they end up disagreeing with each other and falling out with each other so badly. The early Christian thinker Tertullian noted how the Christians love each other. Today we can see how the Christians hate each other and everyone else besides.

For a Baha'i courtesy is the princess of all virtues. Many Christians on this forum completely disregard basic courtesy.



Essentially, what you are saying here is, "this is how I see these scriptures, I'm right, there's no other way to see it, and you are wrong".

It's not much of an argument.



This has been addressed in previous posts.

Does the Bible mention Islam?

Muhammad and the Bible - Wikipedia

As you can imagine, prophecy is not always straight forward.



Belief in Muhammad as a Messenger of God is an important matter to us all to decide based on the evidence. As I see it the Quran is a work unsurpassed in Arabic literature. Muhammad despite fierce opposition united a disparate group of Nomadic savages and taught them to be like the Christians and Jews and worship the One true God. Like Moses He had them turn away from their pagan beliefs. The religion He brought, Islam then went onto be bring about a knowledge and a civilisation that surpassed all others at that time. It was through the Islamic golden Age that the European Renaissance was ignited.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia



All the more reason to look carefully at what scripture is saying, to properly study the Bible and to thoroughly investigate Islam.

We do need to apply the same criteria when assessing if Jesus is in the Tanakh as to whether Muhammad is in the Bible.



I was a Christian before I converted to the Baha'i Faith. I recognised the Bible spoke of Baha'u'llah and I have come to appreciate how the Bible speaks of Muhammad and Islam.





The word Christian is meaningless if you are one of the goats, rather than sheep Jesus talks about in His final sermon.

Matthew 25:31-46

A more respectful manner of communicating would be to say we have a different point of view. Instead your thinking is "I'm right, so you must be wrong". That's how many people think, That they know more about the Christian bible than does the Christians themselves know.

Thats like people thinking they know more about the workings of a rocket ship, Than the scientist themselves knows.
When those people themselves have no idea or clue how the workings of a rocket ship does work.
But yet people will go about trying to tell those rocket scientist they are wrong, about their own scientific method how a rocket ship does work

So when people try to tell me about my bible.
That they themselves have no clue or idea what the bible will say or Confirm's themselves.that speaks for itself.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A more respectful manner of communicating would be to say we have a different point of view. Instead your thinking is "I'm right, so you must be wrong". That's how many people who think they know more about the Christian bible than does the Christians themselves know.

Then there is this passage to consider, this passage talks about Christains;

Matthew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Practicing what the Father has shown us, could be a key to understanding what is being said here.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithofchristian]

Then there is this passage to consider, this passage talks about Christains;

Matthew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Practicing what the Father has shown us, could be a key to understanding what is being said here.

Regards Tony

That all depends on which Christians Jesus is speaking about. Have you any idea or clue which Christians Jesus is speaking about?

Jesus also said in Matthew 24:5--"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many"

Now notice Jesus said, (saying I am Christ and shall deceive many)
You know Christ abbreviated
means = Christian
Christ = Christian.
Now the question is, Which Christians is Jesus speaking about?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That all depends on which Christians Jesus is speaking about. Have you any idea or clue which Christians Jesus is speaking about?

I would say the follower of Christ that has accepted the new Covenant given by the Father. The Lord of Hosts. Those that also accept the Covenant given by Muhammad.

This to me, is practicing the Law given by Gods Prophets and Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithofchristian]

I would say the follower of Christ that has accepted the new Covenant given by the Father. The Lord of Hosts. Those that also accept the Covenant given by Muhammad.

This to me, is practicing the Law given by Gods Prophets and Messengers.

Regards Tony

There are two types of Christians in the world, So the question is, Who's,who
You seem to think, that all Christians are the same, When they are not all the same Christians.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Thats like people thinking they know more about the workings of a rocket ship, Than the scientist themselves knows.
When those people themselves have no idea or clue how the workings of a rocket ship does work.
But yet people will go about trying to tell those rocket scientist they are wrong, about their own scientific method how a rocket ship does work

The Bible isn't rocket science though. God gives insight to us all providing we are sincere and humble and turn to Him for assistance.

Not everyone can become a rocket scientist, but we can all Love God, love our neighbour and even love our enemies as Jesus asked of us.

So when people try to tell me about my bible.

The Bible belongs to us all.

That they themselves have no clue or idea what the bible will say or Confirm's themselves.that speaks for itself.

Matthew 7:1-4. Only God can judge our hearts to say who is a faithful follower in Him and who isn't.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Bible isn't rocket science though. God gives insight to us all providing we are sincere and humble and turn to Him for assistance.



The Bible belongs to us all.



Matthew 7:1-4 ?

The bible was written only to the Elect People of Christ Jesus, and not to everyone.
That's why those people who are not of Christ Jesus Elect People, have no understanding or knowledge what the bible will Say or Confirm's.
only to come up with their own logical understanding about what the bible may say.
The whole bible is about God's Elect and His Very Elect People.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are two types of Christians in the world, So the question is, Who's,who
You seem to think, that all Christians are the same, When they are not all the same Christians.

I would say there are many hundreds of thousands of different Christains, all with a different idea as to what some passages of the bible may say. In turn this has led to thousands of different offshoots.

The passage says only those that do the will of the Father are practicing the Law.

Muhammad showed us what submission to the Father meant, Baha'u'llah has given the new Covernant and the new law in the Station of the Father. That the Son becomes the Father, is very logical.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithofchristian]

I would say there are many hundreds of thousands of different Christains, all with a different idea as to what some passages of the bible may say. In turn this has led to thousands of different offshoots.

The passage says only those that do the will of the Father are practicing the Law.

Muhammad showed us what submission to the Father meant, Baha'u'llah has given the new Covernant and the new law in the Station of the Father. That the Son becomes the Father, is very logical.

Regards Tony

Well there you go, that tells you who are the true Christians, when you find those Christians, that knows the Plan of God.

Why do you suppose, Christ Jesus said in Matthew 26:28--"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins"

What's the difference between the old testament and the new testament.

Why was there a need for a new testament

It's all there in the old testament all the way back to Abraham, why there will be a need for a new testament.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The bible was written only to the Elect People of Christ Jesus, and not to everyone.
That's why those people who are not of Christ Jesus Elect People, have no understanding or knowledge what the bible will Say or Confirm's.
only to come up with their own logical understanding about what the bible may say.
The whole bible is about God's Elect and His Very Elect People.

Jesus came for the downcast, downtrodden and sinners.

Only the meek shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Sure, your can imagine yourself to be one the elect of God, but at the end of the day God chooses.

Perhaps as one of the elect you can use your special knowledge to interpret the following verses.

Ephesians 4:2
Colossians 3:12
James 4:6
1 Peter 5:5
Luke 14:11

 

[Faithofchristian]

Jesus came for the downcast, downtrodden and sinners.

Only the meek shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Sure, your can imagine yourself to be one the elect of God, but at the end of the day God chooses.

Perhaps as one of the elect you can use your special knowledge to interpret the following verses.

Ephesians 4:2
Colossians 3:12
James 4:6
1 Peter 5:5
Luke 14:11

God had already chosen, who his Elect and Very Elect people are, all the way back before God created this Earth age.

 

[PruePhillip]

Of the four authors, the gospel of John is most likely to have been written by an eye witness (the apostle John) to what Jesus said and did.

Again, it's not super important who wrote what. The Gospels don't mention
WHO wrote them (same for Hebrews, BTW)
These people drew no attention to themselves. Even John doesn't mention
HE was "the one whom Jesus loved."

But... Luke is likely the author of Luke AND Acts - the style is the same, and
Luke let's slip the "we" word in Acts which identifies him as being with Paul
on his journey to Rome.
Matthew was the tax collector. I have no reason to doubt he wrote the Gospel
of Matthew.

 

[Dawnofhope]

God had already chosen, who his Elect and Very Elect people are, all the way back before God created this Earth age.

While that is true, it would be pure vanity to pretend we know the mind of God and assume we are one of the elect whereas our brothers or sisters is not. None of us know for certain about God's mind in the regard so we had better do the best we can each day to follow in His footsteps.

Coming back to the book of revelation that we both agree refers to Islam though for different reasons, clearly God knew the future and has made known what that future will be. However He has used language that is full of symbolism. If the message were clear there would be much more agreement. As stated amongst Christians there are all manner of preposterous theories and ideas that appear implausible and irrational. I'm yet a coherent theory from you that gets past first base.

Only Gods Messengers can interpret the book. The Baha'i interpretation appears sound and plausible based on known history. That would constitute a proof of the Divine Messenger status of the Founder of the Baha'i Faith would it not?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Again, it's not super important who wrote what. The Gospels don't mention
WHO wrote them (same for Hebrews, BTW)
These people drew no attention to themselves. Even John doesn't mention
HE was "the one whom Jesus loved."

Its not 'super' important but it is important to have a reasonable sense of the authorship. I don't know what your belief or faith is. For me these are sacred writings that strongly influences my worldview. Regardless of authorship of any of the Biblical books, they are the real deal. They are Divinely inspired works and the gospels are authentic. The Apostles including Paul are inspired by the same spirit of God that associated itself with the life and teachings of Jesus.

But... Luke is likely the author of Luke AND Acts - the style is the same, and
Luke let's slip the "we" word in Acts which identifies him as being with Paul
on his journey to Rome.
Matthew was the tax collector. I have no reason to doubt he wrote the Gospel
of Matthew.

There are compelling arguments to suggest the traditional beliefs about the authors of who wrote Matthew and Luke are not the tax collecter and companion of Paul.

Gospel of Matthew - Wikipedia

Authorship of Luke–Acts - Wikipedia

Regardless of authorship, making sense of historic context is vital to our understanding of the spiritual message the gospel writers wished to convey. Research of modern biblical scholars may not provide unanimous agreement about some key questions but they do help us understand the rich history and theology that spans a six thousand year period.

 

[Faithofchristian]

While that is true, it would be pure vanity to pretend we know the mind of God and assume we are one of the elect whereas our brothers or sisters is not. None of us know for certain about God's mind in the regard so we had better do the best we can each day to follow in His footsteps.

Coming back to the book of revelation that we both agree refers to Islam though for different reasons, clearly God knew the future and has made known what that future will be. However He has used language that is full of symbolism. If the message were clear there would be much more agreement. As stated amongst Christians there are all manner of preposterous theories and ideas that appear implausible and irrational. I'm yet a coherent theory from you that gets past first base.

Only Gods Messengers can interpret the book. The Baha'i interpretation appears sound and plausible based on known history. That would constitute a proof of the Divine Messenger status of the Founder of the Baha'i Faith would it not?

Had you any understanding about the bible, God gives how to know the mind of God's.
As it is written in the book of
Isaiah 55:8-9--"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord"

9-- "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts"

Now if your thoughts and ways do not line up to God's thoughts and ways. Then your on the wrong path.

But the question is, What is God's thoughts and ways, the bible explains exactly what is God's thoughts and ways. It's all there in the bible all about God's thoughts and ways are.
The book of Revelation, has no symbolism.

Everything in Revelation, God has given what everything represents and who everything represents. With No symbolism added.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You would think that if a book such as the Bible has significant prophetic content it would mention Islam if it were a true religion from G-d. Even if it were a false religion, wouldn't it get a mention? Lets consider the facts that I hope we can all agree on. The Bible was written by multiple authors over a one thousand year period give or take a few centuries. We have a span of history going back to Adam (if he really existed) and ending with the book of revelation. Over the last 1,900 years since the book of Revelations was written we have the emergence of two major world religions, Christianity and Islam. Research has indicated the number of Muslims in the world is set to exceed the number of Christians in about 50 years.

Why Muslims are the world’s fastest-growing religious group

So if the Tanakh and New Testament are truly prophetic and from G-d why wouldn't these books mention other religions from G-d? Both Islam and Christianity are religions from G-d are they not?

Of course we probably won't agree on 'facts'. Perhaps we won't agree on anything and the best we can do is agree to disagree. But in the interim this is in the religious debates section. So is Islam mentioned in the bible? Why or why not?

Using the same logic, isn't the fact that Christianity isn't mentioned in the Pentaeuch kinda of problematic?