Does the Bible mention Islam?

[TransmutingSoul]

It sounds like we can sum as "I don't care what the Bible has to say about blasphemy, it must be that the English definition is what the Bible definition is, though the language of English is about 1,000 years younger than the Bible."

Jesus was killed for equating Himself with God. You can look outside the passion week to see instances where the people and Pharisees tried to stone Jesus for this idea.

I see Muhammad was also persecuted as he also said He had a connection to God, that God gave the Message of the Quran to Him.

The Bab had the same fate as Jesus the Christ and for the same reasons suffered execution by firing squad in amazing circumstances.

Baha'u'llah suffered persecution and banishment for the same reason as Christ.

Because of those three Messages from God, We now know how Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are connected to God.

Jesus the flesh is not God, He is but a man like us. The Holy Spirit, the Christ part of Jesus, the Spirit Jesus was born with and reflected to all humanity , is all we can know about God.

We will never see the flesh body of Jesus again, we have seen the Holy Spirit, the 'Christ' again through Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Peace be with you and all, regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

It sounds like we can sum as "I don't care what the Bible has to say about blasphemy, it must be that the English definition is what the Bible definition is, though the language of English is about 1,000 years younger than the Bible."

There are plenty of papers by biblical scholars that examine the use of key Greek words used in the New Testament and Septuagint and consider possible meanings. A great example is the use of the word Logos in John 1:1. Verses in John 1 are often cited by some Christians as being supportive of the Divinity of Christ. But is it? If we considered the way the word Logos is used by Philo, a Hellenized Jew and contemporary of Jesus, this sheds light on what Logos most likely means. It simply means mediator or intermediary between God and man.

Philo's view of God - Wikipedia

Jesus was killed for equating Himself with God. You can look outside the passion week to see instances where the people and Pharisees tried to stone Jesus for this idea.

Lets look at the verse from John 10:34 in context;

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus makes an ambiguous statement "I and my father are one". In response the Jews, without any reference to Pharisees, pick up stones because of blasphemy. In this instance the blasphemy is that Jesus has ‘made Himself God’. Jesus responds with reference to the Tanakh, Psalms 82:6 where it is said;

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

So in that context Jesus is downplaying the Divinity question but then elaborates saying;

Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

So blasphemy is clearly associated with the claim of being 'Son of God'.

 

[CG Didymus]

There are several verses where Quran says, the Laws or commands of God are different in Quran.
It says, for example, some of the Laws that were revealed by Moses, are no longer required.
As an example, see, the covenant of Sabath.

The Laws revealed to Moses, were they meant for everyone or only for the Hebrews?

When Jesus came, were the supposed to stop obeying the old Law and follow the laws Jesus brought? Then same with Muhammad, were the Jews and the Christians supposed to stop following their old Laws and follow the Laws Muhammad brought?

 

[CG Didymus]

Both views are correct. The Holy Spirit that descended upon the Apostles in Acts is the Holy Spirit that lives inside a true believer.

The Holy Spirit or Comforter the Gospel of John talks about is a man, not the Spirit of Christ in Acts of the Apostles 2.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:17

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:26

The Holy Spirit in Acts didn't teach all things, only reminded the apostles of what Christ taught and to follow His commands. There was nothing the Apostles taught that was in addition to what Christ taught. They could interpret what Jesus said, but they didn't have the authority to add to it. In other words they didn't start teaching anything that the apostles had not received from Christ when He was still alive.

So there is three people that are "The Comforter", Muhammad, The Bab, and Baha'u'llah. All three were known by the apostles and all three dwelt within them? Physically or spiritually?

I would think spiritually 'cause a physical body can't dwell within another person's body. So what's the problem with the Comfoter being a "disembodied" spirit? And what is more real the spiritual realm or the temporal physical realm?

 

[CG Didymus]

Here's what you said ( The major problem with a literal interpretation of Acts of the apostles 1:9-11is that we have Christ ascending through the stratosphere to go to heaven. Of course that relies on a cosmology that is now redundant, unless we want to believe that Heaven where God resides is literally in the sky and hell is literally below the earth)

The problem with what your saying is that, your looking at God's kingdom as be literal place above the earth.

Not realizing that God's kingdom and the angels are in another dimension from us, that we as mortals can not see.

So in a sense God's kingdom could very well be above the earth only in another dimension from us, That we as mortals can not see.

It's like the wind/air, no one as actually seen the wind/air, to know what the wind, air actually looks like, We can see the wind, air, blowing, but we can not actually see the wind/air to know what it actually looks like.
The same with God and the kingdom of heaven and the angels, that are in another dimension from us. That we as mortals can not see.
So how would you not know of a certain that, God's kingdom of heaven and the angels could very well be above the earth. Just in another dimension from us. That we can not see.

As Christ Jesus said himself in the book of Luke 17:20--"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation"

You see even the Pharisees thought the kingdom of God could be seen, But as Christ said ( The kingdom of God comes not with observation)
Meaning that the kingdom of God is in another dimension from us, that can not be seen with observation.

I I would imagine that even Baha'is believe that the spiritual realm is a different dimension. But believing Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to the disciples then ascended into the heavens is something they can't and don't want to be true. So they make all symbolic.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus promised that he would return with a new name, and he associated that name with the “city of God,” the “new Jerusalem.”

This city is also associated with the name of Baha'u'llah, the prophet and founder of the Baha'i Faith. The name Baha’u’llah literally means “the glory of God.” This passage from the Baha’i teachings explains the symbolism of the holy city:

… what the Sacred Scriptures most often mean by the Holy City or divine Jerusalem is the religion of God, which has at times been likened to a bride, or called “Jerusalem”, or depicted as the new heaven and the new earth…

Clearly, the New Jerusalem which descends from heaven is not a city of stone and lime, of brick and mortar, but is rather the religion of God which descends from heaven and is described as new. For it is obvious that the Jerusalem which is built of stone and mortar does not descend from heaven and is not renewed, but that what is renewed is the religion of God.
Abdu'l-Baha

Jesus promised in Revelation 3:12:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Jesus gives us the sign of his new name in the same verse. He says that it will be the name of “the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven …”

Later, in Revelation 21:10 in the only other verse that refers to a New Jerusalem descending out of heaven. God shows John that great city, and discloses its sacred name:

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God.

“Having the glory of God,” refers directly to Baha’u’llah.

Then Revelation 21:23 says that this “city” does not need the light of the sun or the moon, “for the glory of God illuminated it.” That verse says the light of “the glory of God” is the same as the light of Christ: “The Lamb is its light.”

In the early Arabic translations of the Bible, the phrase “the glory of God” in Revelation 21:10 was rendered as “Baha’u’llah.”

Who is the "Lamb" in Revelation?

 

[CG Didymus]

For one pure in heart it is easy. Prophecy is deliberately cryptic to enable the faithful to be distinguished from the Faithless. Same deal with the parables which Jesus used.

Matthew 13:10-17

Its a test from God.



The Bible is the inspired word of God. It is not simply a history story. Its is filled with hidden spiritual meanings for those with spiritual insight and purity of heart to fathom. Those who take it all literally are spiritually blind. Those who insist on literalism are deprived of the 'Spirit of Christ' despite their claims to the contrary.

The gospels are told as if they are the real things that were said and done. From one verse to the next, suddenly, it's not literal?

 

[CG Didymus]

With the advent of a new religious dispensation comes trials and tribulations or woes. Consider the Jewish people being driven out of Judea not long after Christ's mission as He prophecised (Mark 13).

Consider also the afflictions of the masses after the floods in the days of Noah.

A trumpet is symbolic for announcing the coming of the Lord.

So every time in Revelation there is a trumpet blast or a woe, it is the coming of a new manifestation?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So there is three people that are "The Comforter", Muhammad, The Bab, and Baha'u'llah. All three were known by the apostles and all three dwelt within them? Physically or spiritually?

I would think spiritually 'cause a physical body can't dwell within another person's body. So what's the problem with the Comfoter being a "disembodied" spirit? And what is more real the spiritual realm or the temporal physical realm?

The core teaching of Baha'u'llah is the Messengers are born of the same Holy Spirit. In that way they are all the Comforter.

We are born of the Human Spirit and must connect with the Spirit of Faith.

I think I posted this before, the Tablet of the Universe by Abdul'baha. It shows to me that we could see the Holy Spirit in this material world like the suns and planets in the universe, each body reflecting God to its given capacity.

In turn we are given life from these bodies.

Tablet of the Universe

Regards Tony

 

[Faithofchristian]

I I would imagine that even Baha'is believe that the spiritual realm is a different dimension. But believing Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to the disciples then ascended into the heavens is something they can't and don't want to be true. So they make all symbolic.

Yes as I have notice that also.
Thanks

 

[Faithofchristian]

I I would imagine that even Baha'is believe that the spiritual realm is a different dimension. But believing Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to the disciples then ascended into the heavens is something they can't and don't want to be true. So they make all symbolic.

Let's see, what Christ Jesus has to say.

On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)
Baha'u'llah died at Acre in Israel, and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre of Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.
Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.
Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.
The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.
So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

So we find the Prophets died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem.

Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem. So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people in Jerusalem, But by a fever.

Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem as a false prophet.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So every time in Revelation there is a trumpet blast or a woe, it is the coming of a new manifestation?

The seven trumpets are described in Revelation 8 and Revelation 9:1-19. There are further references in Revelation 11:15-19. The seven trumpets are closely associated with the seventh seal judgments. The first four are tribulations that affect the early Christian Church until the advent of the Islamic Dispensation in 622 AD.

Following the fourth trumpet judgment, John describes an eagle flying through the air. This eagle cries out, “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels” (Revelation 8:13). So its only the fifth, sixth, and seventh trumpets that are referred to as the three woes. These three woes are associated with the Islamic, Babi, and Baha'i dispensations.

The fifth trumpet or first woe is particularly dramatic as it concerns events that will unfold through the Islamic dispensation from 622 AD until the advent of the Bab 1844. There are of course references to events in Christendom during that period, not just Islam.

So the trumpet blasts five, six and seven are associated with the three woes and a new Manifestation of God. The trumpet blasts one to four are associated with tribulations of the Christian church prior to Islam. These tribulations are not associated with the three woes or the advent of a new Manifestation of God.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Who is the "Lamb" in Revelation?

The lamb symbolism is closely associated with 'the Christ' or Jesus. So references to the Lamb generally refer to a Manifestation of God either directly or indirectly.

The lamb is mentioned 29 times in the book of revelation so we would need to consider each verse in context.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The gospels are told as if they are the real things that were said and done. From one verse to the next, suddenly, it's not literal?

The main mode of communication back in the days of Jesus was by way of story telling and word of mouth (oral traditions). Each gospel would take no more than 2 -3 hours to recite. As a religious story it is a narrative that is to be understood on many levels. Many biblical scholars realise the futility of insisting its all to be taken literally.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Let's see, what Christ Jesus has to say.

On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)
Baha'u'llah died at Acre in Israel, and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre of Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.
Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.
Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.
The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.
So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

So we find the Prophets died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem.

Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem. So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people in Jerusalem, But by a fever.

Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem as a false prophet.

There is no biblical requirement for all prophets of God to live forever or to live and die in Jerusalem.

 

[Faithofchristian]

There is no biblical requirement for all prophets of God to live forever or to live and die in Jerusalem.

Not according to Christ Jesus in the book of Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

Therefore as Christ Jesus has said " For it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This being that no prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.
All prophets of God died in Jerusalem.
Even Christ Jesus himself died in Jerusalem.

 

[Faithofchristian]

There is no biblical requirement for all prophets of God to live forever or to live and die in Jerusalem.

Maybe then you should take it up with Christ Jesus on Judgement day. Good luck you'll need it.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not according to Christ Jesus in the book of Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

Therefore as Christ Jesus has said " For it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
This being that no prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.
All prophets of God died in Jerusalem.
Even Christ Jesus himself died in Jerusalem.

Christ is lamenting how the Hebrew people have treated their prophets of old, and the absurd reasons used to justify their behaviour in putting to death God's messengers. Moses Himself wouldn't be considered a prophet if such criteria are used. You are strengthening my argument. Why not try reading the verses in context rather than taking one verse out of context and giving it a literal meaning that was never intended (Luke 13:31-35).

 

[Faithofchristian]

Christ is lamenting how the Hebrew people have treated their prophets of old, and the absurd reasons used to justify their behaviour in putting to death God's messengers. Moses Himself wouldn't be considered a prophet if such criteria are used. You are strengthening my argument. Why not try reading the verses in context rather than taking one verse out of context and giving it a literal meaning that was never intended (Luke 13:31-35).

Jerusalem wasn't even around at the time of Moses, Jerusalem didn't came to be, until king David, which was about 1000 years after Moses.

Jesus made it very clear on stating ( for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem) all prophets of Gods perish in Jerusalem.
Any other Prophets that did not die in Jerusalem are false Prophets.

If you have a problem with it, need to take it up with Christ Jesus on Judgement day.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Jerusalem wasn't even around at the time of Moses, Jerusalem didn't came to be, until king David, which was about 1000 years after Moses.

Jesus made it very clear on stating ( for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem) all prophets of Gods perish in Jerusalem.
Any other Prophets that did not die in Jerusalem are false Prophets.

If you have a problem with it, need to take it up with Christ Jesus on Judgement day.

The problem lies with your English comprehension, not with my spiritual state.

The verse may also be an allusion to Christ's impending martyrdom.

Why not try reading some commentaries about how others interpret this verse rather than resorting to your typical "I'm right, your wrong" statements.

Luke 13:33 Commentaries: "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem.