Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Rival]

No, the root there, da3 means to know.

Are you changing them on purpose?

The NIV, a very shaky translation but a longtime Christian favourite, uses 'submit'. I've noticed others use 'acknowledge', 'know' &c. Proverbs 3:6 in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.

 

[Tumah]

The NIV, a very shaky translation but a longtime Christian favourite, uses 'submit'. I've noticed others use 'acknowledge', 'know' &c. Proverbs 3:6 in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.

Young's Literal is often a good bet, since they usually aim for the most closest word-for-word translation.

 

[FearGod]

No, the root there, da3 means to know.

Are you changing them on purpose?

I didn't change anything, just copy and paste.from BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.
Maybe you have more knowledge than those who translated the bible.

What about these translations by several sources
James 4:7 - Bible Gateway

 

[Rival]

Young's Literal is often a good bet, since they usually aim for the most closest word-for-word translation.

I'll put it on my Christmas Chanukah list.

Speaking of which, come Chanukah I'll have been a Noahide for 2 years.

#balloons #happiness #yay

 

[Tumah]

I didn't change anything, just copy and paste.from BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.
Maybe you have more knowledge than those who translated the bible.

Do you have more Arabic knowledge than those who translate the Qur'an? You have to know that the people who are translating the Tanach are doing so for different reasons and in different ways, so their translations don't often come out the same.

If you are looking for the most accurate word-for-word Christian translation, then I suggest you look at Young's Literal. They usually try to make their translation as close to the text as possible. You can find it on Biblehub.com.

What about these translations by several sources
James 4:7 - Bible Gateway

I don't know. That is not a book from the Tanach.

 

[j1i]

You would think that if a book such as the Bible has significant prophetic content it would mention Islam if it were a true religion from G-d. Even if it were a false religion, wouldn't it get a mention? Lets consider the facts that I hope we can all agree on. The Bible was written by multiple authors over a one thousand year period give or take a few centuries. We have a span of history going back to Adam (if he really existed) and ending with the book of revelation. Over the last 1,900 years since the book of Revelations was written we have the emergence of two major world religions, Christianity and Islam. Research has indicated the number of Muslims in the world is set to exceed the number of Christians in about 50 years.

Why Muslims are the world’s fastest-growing religious group

So if the Tanakh and New Testament are truly prophetic and from G-d why wouldn't these books mention other religions from G-d? Both Islam and Christianity are religions from G-d are they not?

Of course we probably won't agree on 'facts'. Perhaps we won't agree on anything and the best we can do is agree to disagree. But in the interim this is in the religious debates section. So is Islam mentioned in the bible? Why or why not?

islam is the religion of Abraham and moses
islam means voluntary submission to God
The new prophet of the son of Ishmael (Great nation)

Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible and the Gospel, and Jesus was also preached by Muhammad
But Muhammad word is interpreted as being referred to as the word of light and some hide it
If they refuse, this is their business. We continue our religion and enjoy it

The absolute truth about Muhammad in the bible

 

[Dawnofhope]

Christ is the Greek word for Messiah. Even the Samaritan woman knew that word.

the word Islam means to voluntarily submit to God. The entire Bible is about just that.

The name Muhammad means 'Praised, commendable, or laudable'. The whole Bible is about man being enabled to develop praiseworthy attributes such as truthfulness, justice and compassion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Bible mentions the alternative school of religious thought: Do a bunch of things/avoid a bunch of things to get to Heaven, as opposed to the gospel: Jesus paid for people to receive a free gift. So, Islam as a movement is mentioned only obliquely in the Bible.

There's nothing oblique about it. In a Hadith there are 99 attributes of G-d. All these attributes can be linked to the G-d of Abraham in the Bible.

Names of God in Islam - Wikipedia

 

[rosends]

the word Islam means to voluntarily submit to God. The entire Bible is about just that.

The name Muhammad means 'Praised, commendable, or laudable'. The whole Bible is about man being enabled to develop praiseworthy attributes such as truthfulness, justice and compassion.

That motivates me to start a religion based on reverse engineering. If I call my religion "Good" then, knowing that the word "Good" is all over the biblical text, I can claim my religion is in the bible! It's a perfect system.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The reason, as illustrated by context, usually bears no relation to the idea that they refer to Islam though.

Every example claimed to be related relies on one completely ignoring the context and taking a single verse in isolation.

For example, the one that people claim refers to Mecca (Valley of Bacca) would require people from Israel going on pilgrimage to Jerusalem via Central Arabia.

Given the choice between the idea that either a) it doesn't refer to Mecca, or b) people in classical antiquity used to take several thousand kilometre detours for no apparent reason, I'd have to say the former is far more likely.

Any exegesis of the Bible needs to take into account the context. I'm a Baha'i, not a Muslim so you are referring to a verse that I have not mentioned, nor familiar with.

To find Islam we need to go to the apocalyptic writings such as Daniel, the Olivet discourse and Revelations. An example is Daniel 7 where four beasts are mentioned, each representing an Empire. We are told the identity of the first 3 beasts but what about the fourth in Daniel 7:23-26? It could be the Roman Empire but then it appears again in Revelation 12:3-4.

A Baha'i exegesis is the beast refers to militant Islam or more specifically the Umayyad dynasty that started 661 AD and lasted until 750 AD..

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

This resulted in the rapid spread of Islam throughout the Middle East, into Palestine, Africa, Europe and Asia.

The number 666 refers to this dynasty and this number is mentioned just once on the book of Revelation 13:18. As Christ was thought to be born sometime between 4 - 6 BC then the length of time elapsed from His birth to the start of this empire is 666 years.

Revelation 12:3-4 reads “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

These signs are an allusion to the dynasty of the Umayyads who dominated the Muḥammadan religion. Seven heads and seven crowns mean seven countries and dominions over which the Umayyads had power: they were the Roman dominion around Damascus; and the Persian, Arabian and Egyptian dominions, together with the dominion of Africa—that is to say, Tunis, Morocco and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia, which is now Spain; and the dominion of the Turks of Transoxania. The Umayyads had power over these countries. The ten horns mean the names of the Umayyad rulers—that is, without repetition, there were ten names of rulers, meaning ten names of commanders and chiefs—the first is Abú Súfyán and the last Marván—but several of them bear the same name. So there are two Muáviyá, three Yazíd, two Valíd, and two Marván; but if the names were counted without repetition 70 there would be ten. The Umayyads, of whom the first was Abú Súfyán, Amír of Mecca and chief of the dynasty of the Umayyads, and the last was Marván, destroyed the third part of the holy and saintly people of the lineage of Muḥammad who were like the stars of heaven.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 67-72

It may sound far fetched at first glance but we’re getting away from wild predictions for the future with matching the story to known history. That’s pretty much what bible scholars have done with Daniel 11:1-31.

Daniel 11 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)

The identity of any Empire needs to relate to Israel. Islamic Empires occupied Israel for the better part of the 7th century through to 1921 after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

So the Baha’is have a cohesive historical narrative for the book of Revelations and other apocalyptic writings. A significant portion relates to Islam.

 

[oldbadger]

Enjoy your tea, but I have doubts anything significant will come from your metaphor, nor your reading of the tea leaves.

Regards Tony

Now if you asked me for a reading on the mid-term elections.........
...but you didn't.


*sniffs*

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now if you asked me for a reading on the mid-term elections.........
...but you didn't.


*sniffs*

Hope you had a nice cup of tea this morning and lots became of the readings.

Stay well and happy, regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

That motivates me to start a religion based on reverse engineering. If I call my religion "Good" then, knowing that the word "Good" is all over the biblical text, I can claim my religion is in the bible! It's a perfect system.

Ah, yes, but the Left-Hand-Path followers, Satanists and all manner of other 'less-usual' practitioners can do that with equally excellent providence of proof.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What is the paradox? Am I obligated to not follow the Mosaic Law because many of my people have struggled with it?

We all need to assess our personal relationship with G-d. I don't see why G-d requires anyone to follow a set of laws in its entirety He revealed 3 1/2 thousand years ago. The historic circumstances that made those laws entirely applicable, have passed.

What reformist Judaism says makes sense.

For Reform, the Torah is the God-inspired attempt by Hebrews/Israelites/ Jews to understand their surroundings and their relationship with God. While it is a holy document, the Torah is rooted in the past, and we can even sometimes discern the circumstances under which certain sections were written down. Reform thus sees development in Judaism, not just through the biblical period but thereafter as well, so that we can continue the process of helping Judaism evolve by coming to our own understandings. We also recognize that Jews in various places developed varying customs and understandings, again proof to us that Judaism is not and never was monolithic. When Reform Jews relate to God, they do so on a more personal and less mechanistic level than one would through halachah, though I must add that I am sure that many Orthodox Jews also have a very "personal" relationship with God, and many Reform Jews do feel that God demands certain behavior of them. The fact is, Judaism has never really imposed a "belief" on people, though obviously the halachah system implies a specific understanding of God.

What is the most fundamental difference between Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism?

Our exiles and suffering has always been in order to get us to return to G-d (Deut. 31:1). Should I not learn the lesson from the mistakes of my ancestors?

While learning from the mistakes of our ancestors we also need to recognise those mistakes of our ancestors are not necessarily the main issue now. If you have a framework of worshipping G-d and living a moral life (not necessarily to the letter of the law in the Torah) why wouldn't that be sufficient?

It's true that Jer. 31 says that G-d would make some changes to the covenant. But it says nothing about any changes to the Law itself. In fact, the literal translation of verse 32 implies exactly that - the very same Law that G-d gave us at Mt. Sinai, would be accessed internally, instead of externally. It says, "נתתי את תורתי בקרבם ועל לבם אכתבנה". The first word and the last word here are key: the first word "נתתי" is the word "give" - in the singular, first person, past tense. The last word "אכתבנה" is "write" in the singular, first person, future tense, with a feminine possessive suffix. What the verse literally says is "I gave my Torah in their midst, and on their hearts, I will write it". In other words, the Torah that G-d gave us at Mt. Sinai, is the Torah that He will one day write onto our hearts. So that we will no longer need the teacher/student paradigm, because everyone would know it all on their own.

So yes, Jer. 31 is very clear about the new covenant and what it clearly is not, is what the NT claims to be, as we can see that no one inherently knows the Torah without having been taught it. This is a messianic prophecy that has not yet happened yet, just like all the other Messianic prophecies.

Like most people in the world, I don't speak Hebrew. I rely on good English translations so the I see nothing that says the law has to be exactly the same in the New Covenant. If you can provide an established and reputable English translation that is acceptable to us both, we can pursue this further.

Actually, the passages you quoted prove that the NT isn't the one that's being spoken of here. Let's follow the progression of events:
The end of chapter 29 says, that because we did not fulfill the covenant (v. 24) we were punished by G-d and exiled from the land (v. 27). Following the suffering described previously, we would turn our hearts to G-d and following His commandments (30:1-2). Then G-d would gather us from our exile and circumcise our hearts.

Is that what was happening during the time the Christian "new covenant" was supposedly made? Had we recently returned from exile? Had we returned to following G-d's Law?

It was in fact exactly the opposite, such that we were shortly exiled again. People being killed on the streets. The Hellenized Jews. The majority of the nation was ignorant of the majority of the Law. Is that the scene that Deut. evokes in your mind as "returning to G-d... and listening to His Voice" that would precede the circumcision of our hearts?

I think we need to see bigger picture. There are distinct historic periods, pre-exile, exile, post exile/second temple, diaspora, and Israel re-established. If the first exile period represented G-d's chastisement, then what did the diaspora represent? Why did it happen despite G-d's promises to protect Israel? Despite the restoration of the temple and Jerusalem my humble reading of the Tanakh is G-d had the Hebrew people on final notice. So the issue might be interpreting history in light of what was revealed by G-d in the Torah.

G-d forbid! You render G-d impotent if you say otherwise. If G-d gave us this new heart and that new heart is the NT, but we're not following the NT, then this whole prophecy was made futile. Did G-d sit us in the Land (v. 28) following this "new covenant"? We were kicked out of it only a short time later. There's no way to see a correlation between the events at the time the "NT" was supposedly made and these prophecies without ignoring any of the parts that contradict.

G-d can not be rendered impotent by any man. We can all misinterpret history as we misinterpret the sacred writings. We can all fail to read the reality of our own lives in a modern context.

How do you account for the diaspora btw?

Are you asking for Orthodox view of Reform Judaism?

I wasn't, but now you mention it, I'm curious. How do you view reform Judaism?

We're not trying to sell it to you. You are not Jewish. We are Jewish and those of us that keep Jewish Law as it has been passed down to us, are the only growing denomination of Judaism. We're doing ok.

I had meant how do you convince your people that orthodox Judaism is the best path for Israel and the Jewish people. I know you are not trying to convince me to follow Judaism and I hope you don't think I'm try to convince you to become a Christian, Muslim or Baha'i.

I do see similar trends in Judaism as I do Christianity...

1/ Orthodoxy/fundamentalism
2/ Reform
3/ Secularisation.

How about you?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hi! Im new here. The beast from the desert/earth can be interpreted as prophet Muhammad/Islam whereas the beast from the sea is Rome of the mediterranean. There are also 666 miles between Jerusalem and Mecca. Mecca also sit on 7 hills, as does Jerusalem (originally) . Some say the Vatican created Islam.
Islam needs reformation, but it doesn`t happen because of the Al-Azhar university in Kairo. Medieval.

Humanism, philosophy, ontology, apologetics, spirit-science, fallen angels, 5000 pre-islamic christian manuscripts about Jesus, and near death experiences of muslims meeting Christ made me turn away from Islam. I love muslims very much. If only the Christians were as devoted as they are. I compiled some of my articles on Islam into a book.

Not to say there isn`t good stuff in Islam. Pray 5 times each day. Wash your feet, and hands before you pray
etc.

Here is a ¨book¨ on Islam. https://masonicministries.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/te-2018-islam2.pdf
Lol. Al-Uzza is cool though.

Welcome to RF.

I've never heard Islam being a creation of the Vatican and doubt if any academic or scholar would spend a moment entertaining such a claim.

I guess if you believe that because your church teaches it to you, you could believe anything.

 

[CG Didymus]

A Baha'i exegesis is the beast refers to militant Islam or more specifically the Umayyad dynasty that started 661 AD and lasted until 750 AD..

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

This resulted in the rapid spread of Islam throughout the Middle East, into Palestine, Africa, Europe and Asia.

The number 666 refers to this dynasty and this number is mentioned just once on the book of Revelation 13:18. As Christ was thought to be born sometime between 4 - 6 BC then the length of time elapsed from His birth to the start of this empire is 666 years.

Just a couple of glitches. 4-6 plus 661 equals 665-667. And, who really knows when Jesus was born. Unless someone knows when a moving star settled over the town of Bethlehem. Glitch two... Umayyad dynasty lasted from 661-750AD, which does not equal 1260 years. So how can people argue prophecies when they can so easily be manipulated to fit whatever they need to fit? I might as well throw in another glitch. Muhammad is the First Woe and he's one of the Two Witnesses?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are also 666 miles between Jerusalem and Mecca.

Great to see you here.

"The calculated flying distance from Mecca to Jerusalem is equal to 769 miles which is equal to 1238 km. If you want to go by car, the driving distance between Mecca and Jerusalem is 1471.21 km.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

A man may call himself a fence post, that doesn't make him one. A man may call himself a Christian, that doesn't make him one.

Christ said their were two paths, one broad, for many to take, that leads to disaster, one narrow and difficult, that leads to salvation

This not only applies to the world, it applies to Christianity.

The very spiritual entity that stalks with mirages the world, stalks Christianity. We are told in The Bible that this was occurring in the early days of the faith.

Sadly, it appears that the majority of Christians may have succumbed to the false illusions.

Christ said " by their fruit you shall know them ". You cannot judge a set of faith principles by those that allege they keep them. You can only judge yourself in relation to those faith principles.

Thus you see those that say they are followers of the true religion of peace, being violent and vicious.

God cherishes his children choosing to love and follow him based on total and complete free will. Compulsion of any kind is anathema to him. Thus, the only responsibility of a Christian is to see that others of Gods children know the truth and can make an informed choice. The choice, and the results are between they, and God. Any compulsion, by violence or otherwise us not of God, and thus is not of Christ.

Peace

I couldn't agree more.

Muhammad taught let there be no compulsion in religion.

Al-Baqara 256 - Wikipedia

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Umayyad dynasty lasted from 661-750AD, which does not equal 1260 years.

The Message of Muhammad lasted 1260 years until 1844 when the Bab's Message brought the dawn of a new day of God.

CG, I think this has been explained at least a dozen times

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Just a couple of glitches. 4-6 plus 661 equals 665-667. And, who really knows when Jesus was born. Unless someone knows when a moving star settled over the town of Bethlehem. Glitch two... Umayyad dynasty lasted from 661-750AD, which does not equal 1260 years. So how can people argue prophecies when they can so easily be manipulated to fit whatever they need to fit? I might as well throw in another glitch. Muhammad is the First Woe and he's one of the Two Witnesses?

666 fits nicely between 665 and 667!

The date of birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or in any secular text but most scholars assume a date of birth between 6 BC and 4 BC.

Date of birth of Jesus - Wikipedia

Unless someone knows when a moving star settled over the town of Bethlehem. Glitch two... Umayyad dynasty lasted from 661-750AD, which does not equal 1260 years. So how can people argue prophecies when they can so easily be manipulated to fit whatever they need to fit?

1260 years refers to a date in the Islamic calendar which begun with Muhammad's Hegira...

Hegira - Wikipedia

...and ended with the declaration of the Bab in 1260 (1844 on the Gregorian) calendar.

I agree prophecy is cryptic. However the number 1260 features twice in the book of revelation.
Revelation 11:2-3
Revelation 12:6

The day for a year approach is well established amongst Christians and is not just a Baha'i approach.

What is the prophecy of 1,260 days in Revelation?

So while prophecy can be vague, this is one of the most specific prophecies in the Bible.

I might as well throw in another glitch. Muhammad is the First Woe and he's one of the Two Witnesses

The advent of the any Messiah is accompanied by great tribulations (Matthew 24).