Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[Thief]

Oh dear, you seem to have caught the patronising virus which has been going around!
Anyway, I've got used to it on this thread by now and have grown immune.

So how about returning to the topic?

The OP question was "does the universe need intelligence to order it?"

So do you believe in "cosmic consciousness?". It does look to me like a version of pantheism to me.

Took a look a definitions for pantheism.
Did not see one that takes away an intelligence.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Took a look a definitions for pantheism.
Did not see one that takes away an intelligence.

Actually it might be more like a version of this:
Panpsychism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So many -isms, it's hard to keep track!

I don't think panpsychism would sit comfortably with theism though, it looks more naturalistic.

 

[Thief]

Actually it might be more like a version of this:
Panpsychism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So many -isms, it's hard to keep track!

Not afar from what I believe.

We die....and then share our dreams.
As dreamscape is based on this reality.....a firm grip 'here' is essential for performance 'there'.

 

[metis]

But what if they are facts and you can't see it? Would you prefer him to lie?

He can believe whatever he may chose to believe and I would never tell him he couldn't, but when one claims certain things and tells others they should believe as they do, and yet they cannot produce any evidence, then there simply is no reason why I nor anyone else necessarily has to believe them.

 

[Thief]

He can believe whatever he may chose to believe and I would never tell him he couldn't, but when one claims certain things and tells others they should believe as they do, and yet they cannot produce any evidence, then there simply is no reason why I nor anyone else necessarily has to believe them.

Need a miracle for that?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Need a miracle for that?

Yes, it would certainly take one.

 

[metis]

Need a miracle for that?

No, just some evidence for me to contemplate versus just swallowing something because someone says it.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Not afar from what I believe.

These various -isms are interesting to ponder, but it strikes me that they mostly rest on assumption and belief?

 

[Thief]

No, just some evidence for me to contemplate versus just swallowing something because someone says it.

Well, let me take this opportunity to ask......
If Someone teaching in parable, spoke one that rubbed you the wrong way.....
Would you concede the logic?....or condemn?

What if that same Fellow could walk on water?

Can you stand it?.....when a spoken correction can apply to you?

 

[Thief]

These various -isms are interesting to ponder, but it strikes me that they mostly rest on assumption and belief?

I lean to likelihood.
All this life and it all ends in dust?.....unlikely.
All this chemistry without a Greater Intellect behind it?......unlikely.
7billion copies of a learning device and no one survives the last breath?

Seems the greater likelihood would be....we are here to learn.
What we take into ourselves gels into spirit.

We then leave this life and share what we are with others like ourselves.

Not sure which -ism you might tack unto likelihood.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What if that same Fellow could walk on water?

That would be impressive of course, but religious texts often embroider and embellish. As for parables, it much depends on how they are delivered.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

All this life and it all ends in dust?.....unlikely.

Or just rather depressing? We yearn for it not to be so, don't we?

 

[Thief]

That would be impressive of course, but religious texts often embroider and embellish. As for parables, it much depends on how they are delivered.

Likewise, how they are received.

The parables are corrective in nature.
Some will hear and not understand.
Some will hear and try but then yield to their previous habits.
Some will hear and realize they have no hope....they can only resent and scorn in return.

I suspect only a few can hear and then turn themselves about.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The parables are corrective in nature.

Sure, but there are many teachers and many parables.

 

[metis]

Well, let me take this opportunity to ask......
If Someone teaching in parable, spoke one that rubbed you the wrong way.....
Would you concede the logic?....or condemn?

What if that same Fellow could walk on water?

Can you stand it?.....when a spoken correction can apply to you?

Something that may be at least somewhat logical is not necessarily evidence nor necessarily true. Nor do I feel compelled to believe in what's found in books written thousand(s) of year ago by people that I don't know, plus we can't verify what they wrote.

If I said that I can walk on water, would you believe me? If it's found in a thousand year old book, would that guarantee that my great great grandfather back then could walk on water?

 

[Thief]

Or just rather depressing? We yearn for it not to be so, don't we?

Well....in the natural course of things.....
I am bound to be VERY depressed.
Whatever and all I did in my youth is already fading.
I have gray hair.

Eventually I won't walk.....won't talk....no more of this typing......

It may come to pass....waking up will be a challenge.

If I retain my mind as my body fails....I shall indeed be depressed.

Better I should go sooner than later.

 

[metis]

Some will hear and not understand.

Much like you have repeatedly done in the Garner incident on Staten Island.

 

[Thief]

Much like you have repeatedly done in the Garner incident on Staten Island.

Too bad he didn't listen.
Really......too bad.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Well....in the natural course of things.....
I am bound to be VERY depressed.

So we look for hope and comfort. But is that at the expense of truth? Is the truth sometimes just too much to bear? Are we really just clutching a metaphysical straws? I'm not sure, but I do think these are questions that need to be asked.

 

[Thief]

Something that may be at least somewhat logical is not necessarily evidence nor necessarily true. Nor do I feel compelled to believe in what's found in books written thousand(s) of year ago by people that I don't know, plus we can't verify what they wrote.

If I said that I can walk on water, would you believe me? If it's found in a thousand year old book, would that guarantee that my great great grandfather back then could walk on water?

Some things stand well......no matter what.

I actually favor the inspiration of the Carpenter FOR His parables.
The miracles would be cool.
Too bad I wasn't there.