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Does the universe need intelligence to order it?
- Thread starter Robert.Evans
- Start date
rrosskopf
LDS High Priest
I'd love to. How does one do that? I'm a newbie here.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I knew that if I hung around long enough there would eventually be something that we definitely agree on.
godnotgod
Thou art That
An administrator can do that for you. I think you can just click on 'Report' under your Avatar to the left of your post and
An administrator can do that for you upon request. I think you need to click on 'Report' under your Avatar icon to the left of your post and make the request there. Thanks
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Hi, all this stuff about Mormonism is completely off-topic here, and had de-railed the thread.
Would you mind discussing it somewhere else?
Thanks
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Dang! You must be OLD!!!
(Sorry, don't want to sound like an ageist, but I'm impressed.)Canals on Mars, granted, it wasn't cleared up until 1971 or something, but the Piltdown man, that was shown to be a hoax in 1953 or something. You were in high school before that? You must be around my mom's age, and she can barely use a computer. I'm seriously impressed! Way to go man.
rrosskopf
LDS High Priest
No, back then High School books were notorious for being behind the times. I mean history never changes, right? It's not like any of these scientific discoveries were ever going away... ;-)
Actually it is more likely that the writers were from a different era. I went to school in the '70s
psychoslice
Veteran Member
In my way of thinking the whole universe is intelligence, we are all born intelligent, and then we are all made dump by society, to become intelligent again we need to drop all that society has thrown on us, this includes, religion, what parents taught us, what education has taught us, and what culture has given us. To see a true intelligent person we need to see one that hasn't been conditioned, such as small children, and natives who live naturally .
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Actually, your relationship with this world is through chemistry.
You might be an intelligent spirit but if your chemistry has a fault.....you might not be able to say so.
On the grander scale.....if all of those dead planets are intelligent.....
we need then redefine the nature of thought.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
There is nothing dead in the universe, its just our perception, the whole universe is one intelligence, and everything is one, if we see the world in a duality, then we will not truly see the intelligence, and also intelligence isn't knowledge or intellect.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I feel that there is no creator, there is a continuing flow of creation, a creator would mean that it has been created, and therefore no change or evolution.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I believe in God and evolution.
I also believe God is allowed to tweak His creation.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes you believe.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
You believe that God interfered in evolution then? Could you give some examples?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
OK. Anything in recent history? Anything that could be substantiated?
Last edited by a moderator:
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Physically?...no.
But I don't think that's the scheme of it.
Man was not created to form a form.
Man was created to form ...spirit.
The scheme is straightforward. I don't see why most people fail to realize it.
To form spirit the flesh must be able.....sufficient sense to form spirit.
Once the spirit has formed the flesh has done it's job.
Early Man was likely a disappointment.
Even with the ability to dominate all things.....including each other....
Man was set about propagating and depleting all resources.
The spirit of Man was about to fail
So....a Garden event.
A Flood.
A meteor shower.
All with the focus to alter, hinder or kill whatever harms the development of spirit.
At this late date, all that remains is to set in mind and heart a code of behavior.
That behavior must be acceptable to heaven.
If not that spirit must be dealt with.
The peace of heaven is guarded.
So the most obvious 'tweak' that we can be sure of.......the lives and teachings of our Prophets.
The flesh is about to play out.
I don't think Man has much longer to breathe.
godnotgod
Thou art That
This is right on the money.
The conditioned state is called 'Identification'.
Krishnamurti calls the unconditioned state 'innocency' (not innocence):
'...the state of innocency... is one that is not caught in the psychological structure of society, and is therefore free of conflict; it is not weighed down by remembrances of things past* - which is not a state of amnesia; it is no longer held in technique, though technique is necessary.
...when there is the state of innocency, it is also the state of meditation. You cannot come to that state of innocency as long as you are ambitious, as long as your mind is petty, as long as you are caught in the psychological structure of society and are nothing but an embodied technique - which is what most of us are. We have a job because we have got to earn a livelihood, and we are little better than machines, however clever, cunning, or subtle we may be. A machine-like mind is not an innocent mind. The computers, the electronic brains are probably very innocent, but they are fashioned out of metals, they are not living beings as we are. Eventually a machine may be invented that will have a kind of life of its own, and perhaps they are very close to it already. But to reduce ourselves to the point where we function like machines in our technological efforts, in our acquisition of knowledge, in our piling up of experience, does not bring about innocency. Innocency is that state in which the mind is always young and fresh. An innocent mind has no fear of death, no fear of any kind, and it is therefore free of time.'
Talks by Krishnamurti in Europe 1962 (Verbatim Report) London, Saanen - J. Krishnamurti Online
Innocency is exactly the same state of consciousness that is pointed to by Yeshua:
"I tell you the truth, unless you turn around and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven!'
Matt 18:3
*The awakened state is always found in the present moment, where there is no history, no memory, no trace, as in:
'Before Abraham was, I Am'
Yeshua here is making the point that he, unlike Abraham, is not an outcome of history, of birth and death, ie; 'My kingdom is not of this world'.
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