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Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
YmirGF said:
Have it your way. I simply disagree. I can see why some would get attached to these definitions however. To an extent, it is understandable. Hope you get past this phase soon. Good Luck.
Click to expand...

He can't.....his technique is his crutch.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
YmirGF said:
Have it your way. I simply disagree. I can see why some would get attached to these definitions however. To an extent, it is understandable. Hope you get past this phase soon. Good Luck.
Click to expand...

'I Am' is not a 'phase' one 'gets past', nor is it a philosophy one disagrees or agrees with.

What did I just say to you? I said that it is not a 'personal experience', one that I can have 'my way'. You have completely ignored what I said.

You want to pay attention to the definition, rather than the content that the definition points to, and in that sense, it is you who are attached to the pointing finger rather than to the moon it points to.

All of your descriptions of your own experience point to a personal experience, one of the self, which is not what the authentic spiritual experience is. It is impersonal; not about you. Personality, which you claim to be a part of it, is not a part of the experience.
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Polymathematician
rrosskopf said:
Yeah, that's not history. Even the eye witnesses who were angry at Joseph Smith went to their graves testifying that they saw the plates, and the angel.

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris
Click to expand...
All but Smith's relatives recounted their testimony eventually, prior to that they all admitted that they have not actually seen anything with their actual eyes, but rather had been shown the plates with their "spiritual eyes." Smith wrote the statement and the prevarication is clearly there: "and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man."
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
Hope is empty. Of what use is hope when what we need has already been given? You don't need hope that just leads you on and on; you need to awaken to what is. Then all hope will die.
Click to expand...

You flip-flop your perspective......way too often.

Waves comes on.....and on.....and on....

Hope is forever.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Sapiens said:
All but Smith's relatives recounted their testimony eventually, prior to that they all admitted that they have not actually seen anything with their actual eyes, but rather had been shown the plates with their "spiritual eyes." Smith wrote the statement and the prevarication is clearly there: "and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man."
Click to expand...

I thought admin moved the Mormon topic to another thread. Is this bleedover, or what?
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
You flip-flop your perspective......way too often.

Waves comes on.....and on.....and on....

Hope is forever.
Click to expand...

If you know waves will come on and on and on, then you don't need hope. But here's the ticket: hope is about the possibility of future waves; reality is about waves coming NOW, and NOW is where all waves arise. They never arise in the future, as the future is always non-existent.

Hope.png



from: 'Zen, the Path of Paradox', by Osho

Desire - Mindless - Canvas? - Osho Online Library
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
If you know waves will come on and on and on, then you don't need hope. But here's the ticket: hope is about the possibility of future waves; reality is about waves coming NOW, and NOW is where all waves arise. They never arise in the future, as the future is always non-existent.
Click to expand...
You can't mount an argument on nothing.

Step up and be someone.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
You can't mount an argument on nothing.
Click to expand...

Which is precisely what you are doing, as hope is about the non-existent future, rendering it an empty gesture. Everything is fully contained within this eternal Present Moment. You're looking in the wrong place.

Step up and be someone.
Click to expand...

What for? So I can go back into Identification and be deluded, like you? I'm in no state of anxiety to be recognized as 'somebody' by others.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
Which is precisely what you are doing, as hope is about the non-existent future, rendering it an empty gesture. Everything is fully contained within this eternal Present Moment. You're looking in the wrong place.



What for? So I can go back into Identification and be deluded, like you? I'm in no state of anxiety to be recognized as 'somebody' by others.
Click to expand...

Hypocrisy!

'YOU' are about to prove 'you' DO exist!

type something.....anything at all......
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
Hypocrisy!

'YOU' are about to prove 'you' DO exist!

type something.....anything at all......
Click to expand...

See the typing without a typer. It's magic. Show me the typer. So far, you have failed and are still in Checkmate, even though you don't exist. Maybe your brain has its udders all tied up in a bunch, grasping at things that go bump in the night.

hah hah hah....thought you had me cornered, didn'tcha? Huh? :p
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
See the typing without a typer. It's magic. Show me the typer. So far, you have failed and are still in Checkmate, even though you don't exist. Maybe your brain has its udders all tied up in a bunch, grasping at things that go bump in the night.

hah hah hah....thought you had me cornered, didn'tcha? Huh? :p
Click to expand...

That you can't see the corner you are in......changes nothing.

oh! that's right......you are nothing.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
That you can't see the corner you are in......changes nothing.

oh! that's right......you are nothing.
Click to expand...

I'm Absolutely Nothing, pretending to be godnotgod, just as you also are Absolutely Nothing, pretending to be Thief, and God is Absolute Nothingness, pretending to be the Universe. Reality is virtual.
 
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