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Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

Monk Of Reason

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
godnotgod said:
The five senses can deceive. Even our rational mind can many times be faulty. The policies of the Nazis, the Inquisition, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, etc., seemed perfectly rational to those who carried them out. So the mystic transcends them, knowing the pitfalls, in favor of a higher state of awareness, one that is beyond Reason, Logic, and Analysis. This higher state is not intellectual, not of the discriminating mind. All sentient beings are capable of it, so no, it is not esoteric. It's just that most are attached to the machinations of the conditioned mind due to almost universal social indoctrination. It is the conditioned mind which tries to make nature fit into its conceptual framework in an attempt to 'make sense' of a world it does not understand. Science is no exception. This misunderstanding we then call 'paradox', when there is no such paradox in actuality. IOW, the conceptual mind thinks there must be something to 'figure out', when there is nothing to figure out. There is only to learn to see reality as it actually is. Once this is understood, then factual knowledge can be placed into the correct context of the Reality it is derived from. That way, the cart can properly be placed behind the horse where it belongs.
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How does one know that this "higher state" isn't just an illusion made by the mind?

We are all delusional except the people like you? How do you know that you are not the delusional one? That is what I am getting at.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Monk Of Reason said:
How does one know that this "higher state" isn't just an illusion made by the mind?

We are all delusional except the people like you? How do you know that you are not the delusional one? That is what I am getting at.
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What is required for delusion to be the case?

Is there someone, ie; a self; an identity, who is delusional, or is there simply delusion itself?

When you are asleep, dreaming all sorts of wild fantasies, they seem perfectly real to you. How do you know you were only dreaming?

Can you describe what you think the nature of the mind actually is?

The situation is not that 'We are all delusional except the people like you'; instead, it is that everyone is already enlightened, but most fail to realize the fact, just as most, if not all fish do not realize they are already in the sea.
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
YmirGF said:
This thread is about pretentious drivel that is none too subtly wrapped in the clothing of profound wisdom. Likewise, it is either something you (who do not exist, btw) are aware of or are blissfully unaware of due to your (even though "you" don't actually exist... but hey) social conditioning. It boils down to you (who do not exist) either "get it" or you (blah, blah, blah) do not and woe be to anyone who doubts the less than stellar pedigree of many of the sources cited to bolster this amusing narrative.
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Who is it that you imagine exists or not-exists?

What is it that you imagine there is to 'get' or 'not-get'?

(I really don't expect a response as so many of my other inquiries to mighty mouse have gone unanswered, at least the significant ones.)
 
shawn001

shawn001

Well-Known Member
" So the mystic transcends them, knowing the pitfalls, in favor of a higher state of awareness, one that is beyond Reason, Logic, and Analysis."

So its a higher stage of being alert? Which by the way is hard wired to the brain and is part of the fight or flight response.



What, care to elaborate on this?



Buddha's Brain: Neuroplasticity and Meditation

Buddha's Brain: Neuroplasticity and Meditation


The brain is also hard wired for fear. For an evolutionary advantage.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It is not a higher state, it is a clearer state, as if the fog has risen and the mirror cleaned.
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
"So the mystic transcends them, knowing the pitfalls, in favor of a higher state of awareness, one that is beyond Reason, Logic, and Analysis."
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shawn001 said:
So its a higher stage of being alert?
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Not exactly. 'Alert' implies something to be alert about, as in an impending event. It is more an attentiveness than alertness, but attentiveness is not it either; it is simply the condition required for a state of higher consciousness to come into play. The attentiveness involved is not an attention to anything in particular. IOW, it is attentiveness itself, without thought.

Which by the way is hard wired to the brain and is part of the fight or flight response.
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No, it is not about that area of attention. It is not about anxiety; it transcends anxiety.

The brain is also hard wired for fear. For an evolutionary advantage.
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Yes, of course. But higher consciousness is beyond fear and anxiety, which are conditioned responses.. In fact, it is beyond both our social indoctrination and our biology. It is not a conditioned state of consciousness, but an unconditioned state. It is before mind.
 
shawn001

shawn001

Well-Known Member
show me anywhere this states exists

"higher consciousness" without biological processes.

Meditation is a heightened state of focus. A lot is known about it and what is going on in the brain and how it effects the brain and without the brain you can't meditate. . It also creates Alpha Brain wave activity. The heightened state of focus helps relieve anxiety and stress, which also gives you more relaxed at one with the world feelings. All biological.

brain+wave+1.gif
 
shawn001

shawn001

Well-Known Member
godnotgod said:
'We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When we understand this, we see that we are nothing. And being nothing, we are everything. That is all.'

Kalu Rinpoche

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"“‎In modern physics, there is no such thing as "nothing." Even in a perfect vacuum, pairs of virtual particles are constantly being created and destroyed. The existence of these particles is no mathematical fiction. Though they cannot be directly observed, the effects they create are quite real. The assumption that they exist leads to predictions that have been confirmed by experiment to a high degree of accuracy.”
― Richard Morris
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
shawn001 said:
show me anywhere this states exists

"higher consciousness" without biological processes.

Meditation is a heightened state of focus. A lot is known about it and what is going on in the brain and how it effects the brain and without the brain you can't meditate. . It also creates Alpha Brain wave activity. The heightened state of focus helps relieve anxiety and stress, which also gives you more relaxed at one with the world feelings. All biological.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you see, you begin with the premise that consciousness is dependent upon the brain, in the same manner that tv signals come from the tv set. They don't. How can the material brain create non-material consciousness? This is the hard question in neuroscience at the moment, something it has not yet been able to answer.

Higher Consciousness is not meditation, although meditation is conducive to the state of Higher Consciousness. To enter into meditation is to enter into the pathway of the intuitive mind, and it is the intuitive mind that is the pathway to Higher Consciousness.

Meditation creates a higher output of Alpha waves, the resting state, as your chart shows. This is consistent with Higher Consciousness, which is a state without thought. IOW, the thinking mind is allowed to settle down so it is not interfering with the transcendent state of Higher Consciousness. Zen, for example, refers to the thinking mind as 'monkey mind', because it is always jumping about, monkey-like, from one thought to the next, and to Higher Consciousness as 'Big Mind', which only comes into play when monkey mind is quieted down.
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
shawn001 said:
"“‎In modern physics, there is no such thing as "nothing." Even in a perfect vacuum, pairs of virtual particles are constantly being created and destroyed. The existence of these particles is no mathematical fiction. Though they cannot be directly observed, the effects they create are quite real. The assumption that they exist leads to predictions that have been confirmed by experiment to a high degree of accuracy.”
― Richard Morris
Click to expand...

They 'exist' against the background of Nothingness. You say they are constantly being created and destroyed, but perhaps it is more that they are constantly being manifested and then not-manifested as 'real'. If they are virtual, they are not actually real, but only behave, for all practical purposes, as real, so 'real', in fact, that their behavior can be so predicted, as you describe.
 
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