Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[YmirGF]

This is dead Zen, people who have forgotten how to peel the potatoes.

The amusement is you don't even understand why I use the term bodhisattva. If only there was some sign of joy in your posts... some sense of humor... I might think more about your assertions about intelligence.

I think a problem with this discussion is that the human perspective is inherently limited, and we tend to project our limited human ideas about purpose and creation out on the universe. But the universe is unimaginably large and mysterious. Who can begin to imagine something over 90 billions light years in diameter, with billions of galaxies and trillions of stars? It is literally mind-boggling, and it's not surprising we struggle to make sense of it.

That is exactly where I am coming from. I've seen and experienced a lot in my short lifespan (only 58 years now) and at one time I did express this pretty much as godnotgod has been doing for awhile. It's almost like seeing an old copy of myself and how impossible I must have been. And I wondered why people just glazed over when I would go rattling on. Then my inherent sense of humor took over and that was a real game changer. The other major game-changers were learning to express things in ways that:

- did not insult the intelligence of the reader/listener
- desperately tried to stay away from making absolute statements whenever possible
- directly supported the individual in their struggles through this life by encouraging and nurturing them
- openly admitted I could be quite wrong
- never shied away from direct answers to direct questions

I know, I know... crazy, silly stuff like that...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Are you more interested in academia, or the meat of the Zen statement?

I am interested in authenticity, not in new-agers making stuff up and misrepresenting profound teachings. There is way too much of that already.

But seriously if you want to talk about Zen then start a thread in the Buddhism DIR, it's way off topic here.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So why do we continue to try to do so with the same old limited mind?

Because it's what we have, I guess. Can you imagine 93 billion light years?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You forgot to include peeling the potatoes.

Enough of the potatoes! Like I said, if you want to pontificate about your version of Zen please go and do it in the Buddhism DIR.

Please can we return to the original topic?

 

[YmirGF]

Because it's what we have, I guess. Can you imagine 93 billion light years?

Bearing in mind that light travel 186,000 miles in a second.... things that make you feel very, very small.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Bearing in mind that light travel 186,000 miles in a second.... things that make you feel very, very small.

Yes, tiny and insignificant, and I suspect that's another difficulty with this kind of discussion.
One light year is 10 trillion kilometres, multiply that by 93 billion, and, well, it's an awful lot of zeros!

I can sort of imagine the distance to the sun because we can see it there clearly. But that's only 0.0000158 light-years!

Meanwhile cosmologists are still stumbling around in the dark trying to understand where our universe came from, whether it's the only one or the first one.....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

'from brilliancy I came'
to brilliancy I return;
what, then, is all of this?'

The meaning of that might make an interesting discussion but it's off topic here. Please start a thread in the Buddhism DIR. You might learn something too!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Soon we will be having loads of pure Zen fun!

Not here we won't. You can peel those by yourself, you probably need the practice anyway.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The state of brilliancy is all pervasive throughout the universe.

So now we're back to new-age ideas about cosmic consciousness? <sigh>

OK, so have you personally travelled throughout the universe to confirm for yourself that this state of brilliancy pervades the cosmos? I assume you an advanced warp drive capable of kilo-light speeds?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Is that where you want to go, Spiny?

Try answering my question:
OK, so have you personally travelled throughout the universe to confirm for yourself that this state of brilliancy pervades the cosmos? I assume you an advanced warp drive capable of kilo-light speeds?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And it all happens in a flash while sitting perfectly still!

I'll take that as a "no" then. Unless you are a super-advanced space alien living among us you clearly haven't travelled to the far reaches of the cosmos and therefore you are making spurious claims. Again.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The amusement is your self reference to being a Bodhisattva.

Please can we return to the topic? These continual derailments are getting tiresome.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

In the world of Higher Consciousness, here is there and vice versa. You are everywhere at once, ala Quantum Physics. As I keep saying, the nature of Reality is the same everywhere.

Oh dear, I just knew Quantum mechanics was going to pop up sooner or later.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It's a pittance, really. A flash in the pan. No reason to get excited.

I'll take that as a "no" then. Interesting that you never give straightforward answers to questions......

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What does your inner intellilgent Buddha nature tell you about the outer intelligent universe?

It tells me that you are full of BS.

And I think you're trolling.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Space curves. Sunshine bends minds.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It was there all the time, hiding within your Buddha nature.

So now you are going to tell us that you understand quantum mechanics?

 

[godnotgod]

Definition please. Please don't use new-age jargon unless you willing to define it clearly. That might be OK in the New-age DIR but is entirely inappropriate in a general religious forum.

And again, starting words with capital letters doesn't make them look any more valid, it just makes them look more pretentious.

They only appear that way to the pretentious mind.

The caps are to indicate The Absolute; the Infinite.

Higher Consciousness: Unconditioned, Unborn, Ungrown Unlimited, Non-Dual Consciousness.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Higher Consciousness: Unconditioned, Unborn, Ungrown Unlimited, Non-Dual Consciousness.

But still no definitions. Oh well.

 

[godnotgod]

Cloudy

Hey sunshine
I haven't seen you in a long time.
Why don't you show your face and bend my mind?
These clouds stick to the sky
Like floating questions, why?
And they linger there to die.
They don't know where they are going, and, my friend, neither do I.

- as sung by Simon & Garfunkel