Does this mean Jesus is God?

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is not God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God the Father. So you misunderstand the Trinity by thinking that the Father is the Son also.
There are clear statements that Jesus is God however.

You can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say by interpreting it to mean what you want it to mean.
I know that the Trinity belief is not that Jesus was God the Father.

Baha'is believe that God is Father and Jesus is the Son of God.

Baha'is believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, so in that sense we believe in a Trinity; but I do not think that these three are part of God. Rather, they are separate entities that work together. That is explained in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

Some people get lost in that chapter, so I wrote up a brief encapsulation of it:

God is One and God works through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, an emanation from God. God is like the sun and the Holy Spirit is like the rays of the sun. God remains in His own high place, and does not ever descend to earth.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which became visible and evident in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in this mirror.

 

[YoursTrue]

Makes no sense. You mix up different stages

example:
1) you go to the first class in school
You claim "I'm a first class student"
You claim not "I'm a graduate"
2) You graduate after many years
You claim "I'm a graduate"
You claim not "I'm a first class student"

You try to prove with "first class student" verse that He can't be a "graduate"

* First class: "The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

* Graduate: "The Father and I are one"
@stvdvRF

Anyway, Jesus said he always does what pleases the Father. Do you think he meant he is equal to the Father? If you think that's what it means, you and I do not see things the same. Equally. That statement to me reads he is subservient to the Father.

 

[YoursTrue]

Makes no sense. You mix up different stages

example:
1) you go to the first class in school
You claim "I'm a first class student"
You claim not "I'm a graduate"
2) You graduate after many years
You claim "I'm a graduate"
You claim not "I'm a first class student"

You try to prove with "first class student" verse that He can't be a "graduate"

* First class: "The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

* Graduate: "The Father and I are one"
@stvdvRF

So let me ask you this question: how do you feel about the following statement in reference to Jesus when he said,
“After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things." Please notice he said "just as the Father taught me." Taught him?

 

[muhammad_isa]

We need to remember, imo, that Jesus identifies with God and yet doesn't claim to be God. For just one of many examples, Jesus says he does not know when the end of times will be as only the Father knows. When on the cross, he prays to his Father, which wouldn't make sense if he was actually God-- iow, why would God pray to Himself?

..that..

 

[stvdv]

So let me ask you this question: how do you feel about the following statement in reference to Jesus when he said,
“After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things." Please notice he said "just as the Father taught me." Taught him?

2 things:

1) Jesus said this before His declaration "I and my Father are one"

2) Your verse talks NOT about what Jesus knows, BUT what you know "After you have lifted up the Son of man", right?

 

[stvdv]

We need to remember, imo, that Jesus identifies with God and yet doesn't claim to be God.

A lover of God is a messenger of God. The one whom God loves is a ‘Son of God’. When one experiences both of these, he becomes one with God- ‘Father and Son is one’.

 

[YoursTrue]

2 things:

1) Jesus said this before His declaration "I and my Father are one"

2) Your verse talks NOT about what Jesus knows, BUT what you know "After you have lifted up the Son of man", right?

I don't understand your 2nd point, perhaps you can explain a bit more what you mean? As far as your first point, to say that he and his Father are one does not mean that they (he and his father) are the same person, does it?

 

[YoursTrue]

A lover of God is a messenger of God. The one whom God loves is a ‘Son of God’. When one experiences both of these, he becomes one with God- ‘Father and Son is one’.

Many might claim to be one with God. And his son. That does not mean they are God, does it? OR that they are truly one with God and equal to God, does it? What do you think?

 

[stvdv]

As far as your first point, to say that he and his Father are one does not mean that they (he and his father) are the same person, does it?

Correct. That is the key here.

Similar to normal father/child relation, you are not the same person as your father, BUT you have similar genes

All are God's children, means that all have the Divine essence in them. To be aware of this is the goal of our Spiritual Life, right?

 

[stvdv]

I don't understand your 2nd point, perhaps you can explain a bit more what you mean?

When we read about Jesus, we start our Spiritual Life, class 1. Even if we read in the Bible "Jesus and the Father are one", this does not mean that we "know" this to be true. We are in class 1, we read it, and we believe it (bookish knowledge)

When Jesus declared "I and my Father are one", Jesus realized this (=real knowing), Jesus his knowing was not bookish knowledge, He actually experienced it

Hence (because they had not yet realized), your verse speaks still about special Dualism (After you have lifted up the Son of man), whereas Jesus Himself realized the Truth, non dualism (I and my Father are one)

 

[stvdv]

Many might claim to be one with God. And his son. That does not mean they are God, does it? OR that they are truly one with God and equal to God, does it? What do you think?

No. Definitely not. Bible speaks about "narrow". Will not be many in Kali Yuga.

Many confuse bookish knowledge with Self Realization. Books can guide one at best. After that one must practise

 

[blü 2]

John 8:29 says clearly to me that Jesus is not God. How about you? Does the following statement of Jesus at John 8:29 tell you that Jesus is God?
"The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

I completely agree. There are five versions of Jesus in the NT, and all five expressly deny they're God and never claim to be God ─

Paul ─
1 Corinthians 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth – as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords” 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Philippians 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”

John 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
​

Not to mention ─

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 John 4:12 No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
​

The Trinity Doctrine doesn't exist until the 4th century CE and in any event by the Churches' own admission is incoherent ─ "a mystery in the strict sense".

 

[rational experiences]

O earth the entity creator of its heavens said man.

O God by itself earth.

Heavens totally separate is just a heavenly mass.

Two separate positions of its own mass.

Look at the heavens not including said planet and no phi crop fallout as it doesn't exist. Being the God Jesus themes of modern science thesis.

Was the teaching no man is God.

God two types. O planet only.
Heavens mass only.

That human advice says you don't own a thesis. Why it was taught no man is God as you own no argument.

Yet you don't stop pretending you do.

So some basic laws were human applied.

No looking back allowed as the human...meaning no thesis.

Status teaching said it was how lots of math...maths false woman theme a trick.....turned the human man body into stone.

As no human is stone it's a science warning.

If science thinks a humans biology created stone you would exhibit a mental health condition.

If you can't just say water oxygenated is human body received out of the heavens to support living then you also own a human thinking problem.

Our cells absorb water and we supplement water by drinking as the heavens doesn't supply enough.

One human is always two humans so you can't theory claiming one human correct as you aren't.

Some basic advice said give up self idolising the human science man.

 

[exchemist]

No, it's not. Although obviously some will say it is.

How can you say that when you clearly do not understand the concept?

 

[Colt]

John 8:29 says clearly to me that Jesus is not God. How about you? Does the following statement of Jesus at John 8:29 tell you that Jesus is God?
"The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

To me that's our creator-Son referring to the Universal Father. The Son is having the human experience that he came to earth to have. While on earth he spoke at times by the divine right of his office, at other times as man subject to the will of the Father. Jesus was both human and divine in one miraculous personality.

 

[metis]

Jesus was not praying to Himself from the cross. God the Son was praying to His Father, God the Father

Which is basically what I said, but to be more precise I would say that Jesus, whom is of the essence of God, was praying to his Father.

During His time as a human living on the earth the Son purposely humbled Himself and did not fully exercise the power and abilities of His Godhood.

Yep.

 

[metis]

A lover of God is a messenger of God. The one whom God loves is a ‘Son of God’. When one experiences both of these, he becomes one with God- ‘Father and Son is one’.

I certainly can't argue with that.

 

[syo]

John 8:29 says clearly to me that Jesus is not God. How about you? Does the following statement of Jesus at John 8:29 tell you that Jesus is God?
"The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

Christian god is a miracle doer that does whatever he wants. So, perhaps.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

That would be tricky because they taught different things.

Life doesn’t have a one size fits all solution

 

[YoursTrue]

Correct. That is the key here.

Similar to normal father/child relation, you are not the same person as your father, BUT you have similar genes

All are God's children, means that all have the Divine essence in them. To be aware of this is the goal of our Spiritual Life, right?

Once again, going back to the original scripture under discussion, Jesus said he always does what is pleasing to the Father. To me that means Jesus considers his heavenly father as more important than himself. He does not consider himself equal to the Father. Quite humble.