Doesn't WW2 Show Christiany is Wrong?

[Mathematician]

Alright I'm Angostic but I've grown up in a Christian family and have listened to the poor, "Jewish" remarks for my entire life. While I'm not much of a "beleiver" I do have a question.

First off, the only major difference between Jewdism and Christianity is Christians think that Jesus Christ was the prophet who came to save the Jews, and the current Jewish society think the messaih(spelling?) hasn't come yet.

Well wasn't World War 2 proof that Jews still have problems in this world? I mean the Holocaust is one thing that sticks out in history and will forever.

 

[Rex]

*Moved Thread to Debates- The main religion forums are for education only*

 

[Rex]

Alright I'm Angostic but I've grown up in a Christian family and have listened to the poor, "Jewish" remarks for my entire life. While I'm not much of a "beleiver" I do have a question.

First off, the only major difference between Jewdism and Christianity is Christians think that Jesus Christ was the prophet who came to save the Jews, and the current Jewish society think the messaih(spelling?) hasn't come yet.

Well wasn't World War 2 proof that Jews still have problems in this world? I mean the Holocaust is one thing that sticks out in history and will forever.

I'm a little confused at your questions. Yes the Jews do not think Jesus was the messiah, but he was still a prophet. And they are waiting for the first coming.

The Holocaust was the German Hitler Nazi Genocide of the Jews in which Hitler (A Christian) exterminated them.

I'm not sure how that shows the Jews have problems with the world but rather Christians have problems with the Jews.

Why Christians would have problems with the Jews I have no idea myself, Jesus himself was a Jew, all of the apostles except I think one were the Jews, the Jews gave the gentiles the old testament.

 

[Mathematician]

Jesus Christ was suppose to "save" the Jews. World War 2 was the extermination of millions of Jews. How has Jesus Christ saved the Jews if they all were victims of a major world tragedy?

 

[Rex]

Jesus Christ was suppose to "save" the Jews. World War 2 was the extermination of millions of Jews. How has Jesus Christ saved the Jews if they all were victims of a major world tragedy?

I though Christ died on the Cross for all of his followers not just the Jews. I'm sure we have lost more Christians due to disease then we lost Jews in genocide. Does that mean he has not saved them either?

 

[Mathematician]

Well the Bible did say "man will destroy itself". Disease isn't a human.

 

[paul_an_apostle]

Let me please reset some of your beliefs:
1. Jesus came to save ALL mankind; not just the Jews; not just His followers
2. The Jews (Jewish Jews that is) do not consider Jesus a Prophet - afterall - in their terms He is a liar, since He said He was their Messiah
3. Real Christians (that is - Born again, not just professing) do NOT have a problem with Jews; they gave us the Old Testament, and are considered, religeously speaking, the wife of God

Now the initial question about WWII:
WWII was, in reality, an attempt by the Devil to eliminate Jews from the face of the Earth BEFORE their Messiah could come (the 2nd time) to finally bring His kingdom to earth (which is what the Jews are waiting on)

 

[Runt]

Isn't the general Christian belief that you have to ACCEPT Christ's sacrifice in order to be "saved"? If you go by that belief, then the Jews did NOT accept Christ's sacrifice, and thus they were NOT saved from evil (in the form of Hitler and his followers and allies)... which points more toward the Christians being "right" and the Jews being "wrong" regarding Jesus being the messiah.

That is, of course, if you even BELIEVE the story about a messiah at all.

 

[Scott1]

Runt,

Isn't the general Christian belief that you have to ACCEPT Christ's sacrifice in order to be "saved"?

It is hard to call any Christian belief general with the abundance of theology in the Christian community.

Being "saved" is not the same thing to a Catholic as many "born again" Christians.

If you go by that belief, then the Jews did NOT accept Christ's sacrifice, and thus they were NOT saved from evil

The Jewish people are God's chosen people. God does not break his promises.

Here is teaching from the Catechism about the Church:

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

The Holocaust any any other horrible things that may happen do not happen to the Jewish people because they have rejected Christ, they happen because of sin and evil in this world.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Rex]

Runt,


It is hard to call any Christian belief general with the abundance of theology in the Christian community.

Being "saved" is not the same thing to a Catholic as many "born again" Christians.

Chrisitian General Belief: If you don't believe jesus died for your sins, jesus rose from the dead, or the holy trinity

then there is no heaven for you.

What is wrong with that?

The Jewish people are God's chosen people. God does not break his promises.

They are his chosen people yes, but they do not believe the general belief above. Which equal their fate.


Maybe I am just getting confused.

 

[Scott1]

Rex,

(...... my first thread with the BOSS.... good thing I am wearing clean underwear... )

Chrisitian General Belief: If you don't believe jesus died for your sins, jesus rose from the dead, or the holy trinity

then there is no heaven for you.

What is wrong with that?

Well, the only "wrong" part about that statement is that I don't believe it's true.

Your "general" Christian belief is not supported by the ONE BILLION Catholics on this planet, so I don't know how "general" it is.............

1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16).

The Catholic Church does not teach that those who no fault of their own do not know Christ or the Chruch go to hell.

To KNOW Jesus was the Son of God and REJECT that information based on the desire to be ones own god and judge is another story.

They are his chosen people yes, but they do not believe the general belief above. Which equal their fate.

Christ died for ALL.... even the Jewish people. There is a difference between the Old Law and the New Law (grace).

1963 According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good, yet still imperfect. Like a tutor it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfill it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin, which constitutes a "law of concupiscence" in the human heart. However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Savior God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.

Only one, Jesus Christ, could live totally in accordance with the Old Law...... Christ opened up heaven for those Jews who, although they do not believe, did not fulfill the precepts of the Law, but are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ who defeated death and saved us all.

Hope this helps.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Rex]

To KNOW Jesus was the Son of God and REJECT that information based on the desire to be ones own god and judge is another story.



Quote:
They are his chosen people yes, but they do not believe the general belief above. Which equal their fate.

Christ died for ALL.... even the Jewish people. There is a difference between the Old Law and the New Law (grace).

Wouldn't this contradict itself?

 

[Scott1]

Rex,

Not sure I understand what you are asking.....

To KNOW Jesus was the Son of God and REJECT that information based on the desire to be ones own god and judge is another story.

and this:

Christ died for ALL.... even the Jewish people. There is a difference between the Old Law and the New Law (grace).

Do these two quotes contradict?.......If that's what you are asking then, no, not at all.
The first quote is a decision that requires the free will of the person.
The second quote is a fact (in my opinon).

Let me try something else:

You want to see a movie.

I buy your a ticket to the movies, and so, you have a free pass to get in.... right?

If you reject that ticket and don't go, that does not change the fact that I paid for your ticket.

Your decision does not contradict the fact that you had free entrance to the movie.

If this is not clear, please clarify your question.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Ardhanariswar]

words are big. you may send out the invitation for everyone, but i doubt people in the middle of serbia or china, even in africa will recieve it. they cannot recieve such a messege of love and compassion from just one prophet. God has sent others before and after him. people will hear God, not sum hypocrital preacher.


back on thread

WWII shows how Christianity can be manipulated. it shows how people can be manipulated.

 

[paul_an_apostle]

The Roman Catholic teaching, albeit somewhat confusing, states (in simple terms) that Christians, by definition, accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior; that's the only requirement to being 'Born Again'. The Bible says it this way:

'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart
that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.' (Romans 10:9).

That's it. No more - no less
There's much other documentation in the Bible about it, but that's the bottom line.

Jews never did accept Christ, so they are still under the Law. That does not mean that everything terrible that has happened to them is the result. On the contrary, as Scott said, What has happened to them is because Sin is still in the world. Satan is still Prince of this world, and he wants them dead! With them dead, God can't fulfill His promise to them (so Satan thinks). That's why the Middle East is in such a mess - Satan is still trying to destroy them. However, he's only doing God's will. I read the end of the book - we win

Don't attempt to equate what is happening to the Jews to some punishment by God for their unbelief. He doesn't work that way. They will eventually be 'reinstated' into His graces, but must go through Tribulation (the Great Tribulation) to get there. What we are seeing today in the Middle East (and around the rest of the world as well) is only the beginning.

 

[Ronald]

On this thread I fully agree with Scott! Maybe the first and only, but The God I serve doesn't defer to hell(Gehenna)someone who through no fault of his own fail to hear and receive the Gospel. He is a Just God! Full of Grace.
Amein and Shalom

 

[keevelish]

paul, who says that the Jew will be "reinstated" into God's graces? The Bible says that all men are equal in God's sight. The Jews will be judged according to whether they accepted Christ's gift or not, and their walk after if they did, Just like everyone else.

 

[Ronald]

'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart
that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.' (Romans 10:9).

Paul was talking to the Gentile, Paul "never" made hallakah/legal descision for the Jew.

You are so close, but yet so far from the truth.

Pray for new eyes.

Read my Sig.

 

[Yahweh]

Jesus Christ was suppose to "save" the Jews. World War 2 was the extermination of millions of Jews. How has Jesus Christ saved the Jews if they all were victims of a major world tragedy?

Yahshua saves all! for all have sinned and come short of Yahweh!

 

[Ardhanariswar]

jesus sinned? this is news.