Doesn't WW2 Show Christiany is Wrong?

[Ceridwen018]

Holy crap! It's Yahweh himself guys! Oh man, it's great you're here--we all have so many questions! (Haha, alright I've had my fun, I'm done!)

That is a very interesting idea. Since you have to accept Jesus to get into heaven, do all Jews go to hell? It's especially weird given that the Jews are god's chosen people.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

can u imagine an innocent girl named anne frank burn in hell? no, but thats why theres purgatory! </sarcasm>
its such a pity. sheesh.

 

[paul_an_apostle]

paul, who says that the Jew will be "reinstated" into God's graces? The Bible says that all men are equal in God's sight. The Jews will be judged according to whether they accepted Christ's gift or not, and their walk after if they did, Just like everyone else.

In Revelations, the Jew is reinstated as God's wife - this comes after the Age of Grace is over and the 'Tribulation' period has begun.

Paul was talking to the Gentile, Paul "never" made hallakah/legal descision for the Jew.

You are so close, but yet so far from the truth.

Pray for new eyes.

Read my Sig.

Paul was writing to the Roman Church, yes, but God's message is for all mankind, Jew or Gentile. Any who believe on Jesus and Confess it are saved - it makes no difference who they are my friend; afterall, Paul was a Jew, as were all the apostles and all the first fruit Christians.

 

[Christ Michael]

The Roman Catholic teaching, albeit somewhat confusing, states (in simple terms) that Christians, by definition, accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior; that's the only requirement to being 'Born Again'. The Bible says it this way:

'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart
that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.' (Romans 10:9).

That's it. No more - no less
There's much other documentation in the Bible about it, but that's the bottom line.

Jews never did accept Christ, so they are still under the Law. That does not mean that everything terrible that has happened to them is the result. On the contrary, as Scott said, What has happened to them is because Sin is still in the world. Satan is still Prince of this world, and he wants them dead! With them dead, God can't fulfill His promise to them (so Satan thinks). That's why the Middle East is in such a mess - Satan is still trying to destroy them. However, he's only doing God's will. I read the end of the book - we win

Don't attempt to equate what is happening to the Jews to some punishment by God for their unbelief. He doesn't work that way. They will eventually be 'reinstated' into His graces, but must go through Tribulation (the Great Tribulation) to get there. What we are seeing today in the Middle East (and around the rest of the world as well) is only the beginning.

Let me get this straight: Satan, who is doing God's will, wants all the Jews dead so that God can't fulfill his promise to them. By doing God's will Satan is a bad guy and yet all the religions of the world exort us to do God's will !!!
If this is a true state of affairs I can only conclude that the Almighty is logically challenged !!!


Cheers

 

[paul_an_apostle]

Let me get this straight: Satan, who is doing God's will, wants all the Jews dead so that God can't fulfill his promise to them. By doing God's will Satan is a bad guy and yet all the religions of the world exort us to do God's will !!!
If this is a true state of affairs I can only conclude that the Almighty is logically challenged !!!
Cheers

The straight of it is that Satan is not doing God's will; Satan is doing Satan's will and is being disobedient to God, as are all sinners. The Bible simply tells us what is going to happen, in spite of Satan's attempts to derail The Plan. Sin is being disobedient to God, and Satan is just another sinner to God; but that's for another thread.

The Plan is to get all mankind saved, or as many as will choose to be saved. Hell was created for Satan and his minions, not mankind. Unfortunately, some of mankind chooses to follow Satan, and they will - right into Hell. This includes Jew and Gentile both; all who continue in sin.

WWII was just another ploy by Satan to change his destiny - eternity in the Lake of Fire.

May God Bless you and open your eyes to the truth.

 

[Christ Michael]

The truth about Satan can be learned in this thread.http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1014
He has no power over us.


Cheers

 

[Ardhanariswar]

perhaps, but what is satan? the definition of evil all summed up into one being? then evil is the cause of wwII. i mean, power, money, new world order. those factors are not necessarily evil, but a person can put those into good or bad use.

there is no satan. if there is its all part of the human mind. just like God!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Hold on, just one minute! There has been some confusion about who goes to hell and who is saved.

Scott, you said that all those people who are ignorant of Christ, but sincerely seek God in their lives, are saved. So for example, some primitive tribe in Africa will not necessarily go to hell because they have never heard of Jesus.

However--Jews, my friend, have heard of Jesus. They know all about Jesus, but they reject that he was the Son of God, just as Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists reject it. These people are doomed in the afterlife, no?

 

[Ceridwen018]

Spinkles, if I could give you a clapper I would.

This is an excellent point--the Jews are god's common people, but they are exercising the recipe for disaster here: knowingly rejecting their ticket to heaven. Do they still get by because they're 'special'? If so, this sure says a lot about this marriage (as Israel is supposed to be the bride of Christ and all)...god is *****-whipped.

 

[Ronald]

Hold on, just one minute! There has been some confusion about who goes to hell and who is saved.

Scott, you said that all those people who are ignorant of Christ, but sincerely seek God in their lives, are saved. So for example, some primitive tribe in Africa will not necessarily go to hell because they have never heard of Jesus.

However--Jews, my friend, have heard of Jesus. They know all about Jesus, but they reject that he was the Son of God, just as Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists reject it. These people are doomed in the afterlife, no?

This was not addressed to me, but I will answer.

Jesus/Yeshua in your RED LETTER edition of your KJV Bible, said
"Verily, verily I say unto you(YOU) he who hears my words(word of God/Torah) and believes upon Him (God) that sent Me, hath everlasting life(salvation)and shall not come into condemnation(hell), but is passed from death unto life."

So judge for yourself, shall you call the speaker a liar? I choose to believe what he said. Christians are FREE to JUDGE, Eternally forgiven.(they say)!
I believe when an UNCHANGING GOD chooses a people, they stay chosen!!!

 

[Scott1]

Scott, you said that all those people who are ignorant of Christ, but sincerely seek God in their lives, are saved. So for example, some primitive tribe in Africa will not necessarily go to hell because they have never heard of Jesus.

Correct, in my opinion, of course.

However--Jews, my friend, have heard of Jesus. They know all about Jesus, but they reject that he was the Son of God, just as Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists reject it. These people are doomed in the afterlife, no?

No, they are not. God does not break a promise..... and the Jew's are God's chosen people.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Still, that sucks for all those Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Pagans, huh? Is Ghandi doomed in the afterlife, too?

 

[Ardhanariswar]

correction Sogfpp, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus have heard of Jesus' messege. they do not know it is the messege of jesus, but they have heard of it, and they do believe in it. if you did not know, this messege is followed by Muslims, Buddhists, and hindus too. Non voilence, love your neighbor, etc. God truly gave the messege to everyone. To the hindus, it was Krishna and his many avatarams, to the buddhists, its the Buddha and the numerous dalai lamas, to the muslims its muhammed.

try to look beyond the obvious. Jesus's messege is everywhere. its not only belonging to christians. that sense of, "come to our religion, its the only way to heaven" is just propaganda so they can have more followers. but in every religion, everyone follows God. not just christian. its a wonder how many of you cannot see that.

 

[Scott1]

Mr S.

Am I following the right thread???

Still, that sucks for all those Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Pagans, huh? Is Ghandi doomed in the afterlife, too?

Ghandi is doomed? Are you trying to make a joke about the salvation of another human being????

I don't find that amusing at all my friend. Sarcasm does not suit you.......

To clarify:

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
[size=+1]LUMEN GENTIUM[/size]
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

correction Sogfpp, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus have heard of Jesus' messege.

Well, it might be fun to generalize to make your strawman argument, but I would guess that there might be one or two in that group who have not....
...... the point should be about not HEARING the message but ACCEPTING the message.

God truly gave the messege to everyone.

Amen to that...... conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ..... to use a Catholic phrase.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Henry]

I think that something needs to be considered here.
As a result of WW2, the world (finally) felt sympathy towards the Jews. Therefore, the nation of Israel was reborn. I firmly believe this was Gods' doing. (not WW2, but the nation being reborn) Also, something that we must remember is that the Bible refers to satan as the god (little g) of this world. In essence, God has given him domain until the return of Jesus. More on that later.
Now, on to salvation. Someone stated (in an earlier post) that all religions teach the same thing as what Jesus did. This is not true. There are many things that seperate christianity from the other beliefs. Alot of religions teach pretty much a free for all as long as your intentions are good. Jesus taught that there is a penalty for sin - death. Now I know, you guys are thinking "that's not a loving God!". Here's the thing, Jesus paid the penalty for us! So, am I free to do what I want now? YES!!! But, there are still going to be repercussions (sp?). My sin will still cause harm. If I kill someone, I will end up in prison, etc, etc. I will go into more detail on this at another time. That's all for now.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As a result of WW2, the world (finally) felt sympathy towards the Jews. Therefore, the nation of Israel was reborn. I firmly believe this was Gods' doing. (not WW2, but the nation being reborn)

This is commonly termed "cherry-picking".

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"the point should be about not HEARING the message but ACCEPTING the message.


Quote:
God truly gave the messege to everyone.

Amen to that...... conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ..... to use a Catholic phrase."


um, that messege has been given by God to the people before christ. i mean, the hindus, and buddhists. then jews came a long, God needed to give them the messege, so he sent jesus. is that hard to understand?


and gandhi did read the gospel. because he was a tolerant man, he has an open mind, he discovered (as many did before him) that the bible and the scriptures in hinduism all have the same messege, but just in different languages.

as for the Jews, theyve got a special thing with God. i dunno, perhaps they do. but im not jew, so its not my problem.

 

[Scott1]

Gerani1248,

We seem to have a communication problem........

um, that messege has been given by God to the people before christ. i mean, the hindus, and buddhists. then jews came a long, God needed to give them the messege, so he sent jesus.

Well, I never wrote or implied that the message given by God (as it related to conscience) was NOT given before Christ...

is that hard to understand?

You see, there you go again....... I never said that I did not understand that.

You have got to realize that I can not hear the thoughts in your head.

Ask questions and respond to what I write.

That would make it a lot easier.

Here's a chance for you to respond to a REAL question instead of making things up....

that the bible and the scriptures in hinduism all have the same messege,

What is that message?

Peace,
Scott

 

[paul_an_apostle]

Peace to All -

Please allow me to clarify what seems to be a HUGE question all of a sudden; that is - 'that the Bible and the scriptures in Hinduism (and other religions) all have the same messege' - they don't!

The Bible teaches that Jesus is the Way, The Truth, and The Life, and that only through Jesus can we approach th thrown of God. No other religion teaches that, otherwise they'd be Christian, no Hinduism, Muslem, etc.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is One of the three person in God. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God come to Earth and taking on human form. The Bible teaches that Jesus Took upon himself ALL the sins of mankind when He went to the Cross. He was the perfect Lamb Of God, And the Bible teaches that Jesus' Resurrection IS the cleansing act that gives mankind hope in the time to come.

That is the critical difference in the Bible, and no other religion teaches that, none! All the other things, love, forgiveness, tolerence, etc - they are fruits of the above act; results of salvation, but NOT the main message.

If you are (in the terms of the world) a good person, a loving person, a person dedicated to helping mankind, working day and night ofr the good of mankind, and you don't know Jeus, then you are doomed to go with Satan into Hell - along with the Ghandi's of the world, and any other person who does not accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. The Bible teaches that 'All have sinned' [Rom.3:23] and that man's 'righteousness is as filthy rags' [Is.64:6].

God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
[1 Jn.4:9]

NO other religion teaches any of this, and their followers are not saved because of it.

God Bless

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If you are (in the terms of the world) a good person, a loving person, a person dedicated to helping mankind, working day and night ofr the good of mankind, and you don't know Jeus, then you are doomed to go with Satan into Hell - along with the Ghandi's of the world, and any other person who does not accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

You are such a wonderful testament against Christian fundamentalism. I'd rather stand with the Ghandis of the world.