Doing the Law

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by Thana
I know that passage, And I understand your point.
And I don't outright disobey the OT, I just don't follow some customs and some laws.

If I am wrong in this, Then I know one day I'll be set on the right path.
I trust in God to help me find righteousness and truth.

Well then, I shall leave you with that. May you be directed towards the truth and have a willing Spirit to embrace it.

Hi Thana, a true willing seeker will be guided to the right information/path.

Hi Shermana, since GOD didn't create denominations nor sects/tribes, but only people, a willing spirit has to be the foundation for all the searchers after the True GOD.
There are the "spirits controlled by the adversary" and there is the Holy Spirit guided messages from GOD the FATHER.
Since none of us were there when the inspired messages were given, we can only have faith in the written prophetic messages and their being preserved by the same Spirit and GOD that gave them. Not some opinions--"traditions and commandments" made and decreed in the councils of men.

Eve was deceived---Adam willfully chose. Yes, which will we "embrace"?

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Leviticus 4&5 only applies to inadvertent sins. I do understand that substitutionalism was used by Judaism as one of the ways of explaining and applying sacrifice, but substitutionalism was not the only point of view. At issue here is really this: How does YAHWEH ELOHIM view sacrifice? Furthermore, how does Messiah Yahushua view sacrifice? THEIR views should be identical.
Messiah Yahushua clearly indicates that sacrifice is of little value in the reconciliation of men with men (see Matthew 5:23-24). If substitutional sacrifice does not work to reconcile men with men, why do you imagine that substitutional sacrifice works to reconcile ELOHIM with men?
Furthermore, Christianity desperately needs to ask itself this question: Why would YAHWEH ELOHIM command sacrifice and, then, turn around and express through the Prophets that sacrifice actually means very little to HIM? Does not mercy trump sacrifice in the estimation of YAHWEH ELOHIM (see Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:13, and Matthew 12:7)? And this is true no matter one's viewpoint concerning the nature of sacrifice.
Sacrifice does establish judgment in the earth (see John 12:31-33), and James clearly teaches that mercy is greater than judgment (see James 2:13). Do you yourself know why YAHWEH values mercy over sacrifice?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[sincerly]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Leviticus 4&5 only applies to inadvertent sins. I do understand that substitutionalism was used by Judaism as one of the ways of explaining and applying sacrifice, but substitutionalism was not the only point of view. At issue here is really this: How does YAHWEH ELOHIM view sacrifice? Furthermore, how does Messiah Yahushua view sacrifice? THEIR views should be identical.

Hi Latuwr,Their views are the same/identical. John the Baptist testified, John1:29,36, "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. " John in Rev.13:8, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

1Pet.1:1-20, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you",

Luke 22:42, "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done".

Messiah Yahushua clearly indicates that sacrifice is of little value in the reconciliation of men with men (see Matthew 5:23-24). If substitutional sacrifice does not work to reconcile men with men, why do you imagine that substitutional sacrifice works to reconcile ELOHIM with men?

The context starts at vs21, the one bringing the sacrifice was angry without a just cause and was bringing his sacrifice. He was admonished to make things right with his "brother"--asking forgiveness/restoration,etc. and then come bringing the correct "gift".
One does not need a blood sacrifice for "men to men" problems.
However, with disobeying GOD "in those things one should not do"/breaking of the Decalogue---the penalty is one's death. It is impossible for man to pay his own sin debt and live. Therefore, as seen in those verses above, Jesus Christ "is the Lamb of GOD" which does take away the death penalty by the substitution of HIS LIFE for the life of the sinner.

Furthermore, Christianity desperately needs to ask itself this question: Why would YAHWEH ELOHIM command sacrifice and, then, turn around and express through the Prophets that sacrifice actually means very little to HIM? Does not mercy trump sacrifice in the estimation of YAHWEH ELOHIM (see Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:13, and Matthew 12:7)? And this is true no matter one's viewpoint concerning the nature of sacrifice.

The message given by GOD/Jesus in those verses(their context) isn't saying as you suppose. Yes, GOD the Father is long-suffering and waits for one to Repent and accept HIS Mercy in the graciously forgiveness of ones disobedience.
GOD had much rather in LOVE be merciful in allowing HIS Son to die for the Sinner.
But, even in greater measure, GOD had rather the sinner not sin in the first place and rely upon HIS Son's Death to pay his sin debt.

Sacrifice does establish judgment in the earth (see John 12:31-33), and James clearly teaches that mercy is greater than judgment (see James 2:13). Do you yourself know why YAHWEH values mercy over sacrifice?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Latuwr, Yes, the judgment is in accordance to whether on not one accepts the sacrifice of the "lifted up" Jesus Christ.
It is the law of liberty/Decalogue which judges a person; he that shows no mercy judges himself to receive not mercy.
Therefore, One is to Repent of their wicked ways and submit to the Will of the Father.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sincerely,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I am not sure that you gave me an answer as to why YAHWEH ELOHIM desires mercy over sacrifice. Your last paragraph where you answer, "yes", I believe refers to judgment being established in the earth. You state:
Latuwr, Yes, the judgment is in accordance to whether on not one accepts the sacrifice of the "lifted up" Jesus Christ.
I could partially accept your answer with this modification:
Latuwr, Yes, the judgment is in accordance to whether on not one accepts (personal responsibility for) the sacrifice of the "lifted up" Jesus Christ.
Without my modification, sinners imagine themselves to be bystanders at the Cross and not active participants in the crucifixion or lifting up of Messiah Yahushua. Classical substitutionalism requires that the sinner believe that he or she is not a participant in Messiah's sacrifice. They reason that any participation on the part of the sinner bystander would render Paul's concept of grace void, and everyone knows that we are saved by grace through faith, are we not? So, substitutionalists reject any personal responsibility for the death of Messiah. They judge that the responsibility for HIS death rests in the hands of someone else, and they thereby ultimately place the blame (or in their thinking, praise) upon YAHWEH ELOHIM HIMSELF when they assign all credit to ELOHIM for HIS gracious mercy towards them. They imagine that this mercy is extended to them because of the substitutional death of Messiah Yahushua. In their thinking, Messiah is punished in their stead. In their thinking, Messiah suffers death in their stead, which in their minds, is the ultimate payment for all their sins, all according to the gracious will of ELOHIM.
What greater testament to the justice of a just ELOHIM could be expressed than the punishment of the innocent in the place of the guilty? Who in all the world would have motive to develop such a convoluted system of justice, a justice that punishes the innocent in the place of the guilty?
Perhaps, we should take seriously the words of Yahushua about judgment:
John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Come now, ye substitutionalists, how is the prince of the world, HaSatan, judged by any belief in substitutionally punishing the innocent in the place of the guilty?
Thanking in advance any that should be bold enough to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[sincerly]

Hi Sincerely,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I am not sure that you gave me an answer as to why YAHWEH ELOHIM desires mercy over sacrifice. Your last paragraph where you answer, "yes", I believe refers to judgment being established in the earth. You state:
Latuwr, Yes, the judgment is in accordance to whether on not one accepts the sacrifice of the "lifted up" Jesus Christ.
I could partially accept your answer with this modification:
Latuwr, Yes, the judgment is in accordance to whether on not one accepts (personal responsibility for) the sacrifice of the "lifted up" Jesus Christ.
Without my modification, sinners imagine themselves to be bystanders at the Cross and not active participants in the crucifixion or lifting up of Messiah Yahushua. Classical substitutionalism requires that the sinner believe that he or she is not a participant in Messiah's sacrifice. They reason that any participation on the part of the sinner bystander would render Paul's concept of grace void, and everyone knows that we are saved by grace through faith, are we not? So, substitutionalists reject any personal responsibility for the death of Messiah. They judge that the responsibility for HIS death rests in the hands of someone else, and they thereby ultimately place the blame (or in their thinking, praise) upon YAHWEH ELOHIM HIMSELF when they assign all credit to ELOHIM for HIS gracious mercy towards them. They imagine that this mercy is extended to them because of the substitutional death of Messiah Yahushua. In their thinking, Messiah is punished in their stead. In their thinking, Messiah suffers death in their stead, which in their minds, is the ultimate payment for all their sins, all according to the gracious will of ELOHIM.
What greater testament to the justice of a just ELOHIM could be expressed than the punishment of the innocent in the place of the guilty? Who in all the world would have motive to develop such a convoluted system of justice, a justice that punishes the innocent in the place of the guilty?
Perhaps, we should take seriously the words of Yahushua about judgment:
John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Come now, ye substitutionalists, how is the prince of the world, HaSatan, judged by any belief in substitutionally punishing the innocent in the place of the guilty?
Thanking in advance any that should be bold enough to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, read my answers carefully and apply the message seen in The Day of Atonement.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
I have read carefully what you have written. We owe each other that courtesy. Do you remember these your words:
"Jesus Christ did not abolish/negate the Decalogue(LAW) , but HIS death did "fulfill" the sacrificial/ceremonial laws(slaying of animals) which were symbolic of HIS Promised death which was planned "before the foundation of the world".(1 Pet.1:20)."
I believe that Yahushua is my sin offering for all my inadvertent sins (see Leviticus 4 & 5). After all, Messiah did say: Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
If Yahushua is my sin offering, then somehow I did participate in HIS death as required by the Law. Sin offerings were slain inside the camp. Various portions of the sin offerings were burnt upon the Altar of Burnt Offering. If the blood of the sin offering was brought inside the Holy Place, then the sin offerings were burnt outside the camp. Those sin offerings burned outside the camp were never eaten by the priests. Other sin offerings were eaten by the priests.
I also believe that Yahushua is my Red Heifer. This offering for purification from sins is slain outside the camp and wholly burned outside the camp. Any man could kill the Red Heifer which was slain ultimately so that the unclean could be made clean. The fulfillment of this ritual is the foundation of all worship.
Yahushua is also the Passover Lamb. This Lamb is a peace offering, and this offering is slain on the 14th of the first moon by all Israel. Peace offerings were killed inside the camp. Various portions were burnt upon the Altar of Burnt Offerings, and the remainder was eaten by priests and by those who brought the offering.
Just now, you have asked that I apply the message seen on the Day of Atonement in accordance with your answers. Ok, let's begin by considering the identical goats required for that day. One of the goats was offered or slain inside the camp. The other goat was led outside the camp unto a desolate place by a man fit for that purpose, and then that goat was hurled off a cliff to its death. Would you be so kind to allow me to ask you a few questions with respect to these goats? Which goat represents Yahushua in your thinking? Or perhaps you believe that both goats are representative of Messiah Yahushua? Would you please share with me your thinking about these goats?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Brickjectivity]

What is the purpose of "doing" the Law. Is it as Paul said in Romans that the "doers of the law shall be justified." Or is it an ongoing process of staying out of trouble? Perhaps a way or reconciling to God after sin? Something else? Is there an end purpose?

• Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” (Deuteronomy 4:6)
• "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7)
• Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again. (Numbers 11:25)
• "The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple." (Psalm 19:7)

The above scripture verses are there to signal that the Law is a dispensation of the 'Holy Spirit'. When for instance Jesus says not to 'Blaspheme' the Holy Spirit it included not blaspheming this Law. Genesis says that the LORD breathed into Adam, and this made him alive. The Law, similarly, makes Israel alive and likely was practiced by the early Christians.

 

[sincerly]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
I have read carefully what you have written. We owe each other that courtesy. Do you remember these your words:
"Jesus Christ did not abolish/negate the Decalogue(LAW) , but HIS death did "fulfill" the sacrificial/ceremonial laws(slaying of animals) which were symbolic of HIS Promised death which was planned "before the foundation of the world".(1 Pet.1:20)."
I believe that Yahushua is my sin offering for all my inadvertent sins (see Leviticus 4 & 5). After all, Messiah did say: Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
If Yahushua is my sin offering, then somehow I did participate in HIS death as required by the Law. Sin offerings were slain inside the camp. Various portions of the sin offerings were burnt upon the Altar of Burnt Offering. If the blood of the sin offering was brought inside the Holy Place, then the sin offerings were burnt outside the camp. Those sin offerings burned outside the camp were never eaten by the priests. Other sin offerings were eaten by the priests.
I also believe that Yahushua is my Red Heifer. This offering for purification from sins is slain outside the camp and wholly burned outside the camp. Any man could kill the Red Heifer which was slain ultimately so that the unclean could be made clean. The fulfillment of this ritual is the foundation of all worship.
Yahushua is also the Passover Lamb. This Lamb is a peace offering, and this offering is slain on the 14th of the first moon by all Israel. Peace offerings were killed inside the camp. Various portions were burnt upon the Altar of Burnt Offerings, and the remainder was eaten by priests and by those who brought the offering.
Just now, you have asked that I apply the message seen on the Day of Atonement in accordance with your answers. Ok, let's begin by considering the identical goats required for that day. One of the goats was offered or slain inside the camp. The other goat was led outside the camp unto a desolate place by a man fit for that purpose, and then that goat was hurled off a cliff to its death. Would you be so kind to allow me to ask you a few questions with respect to these goats? Which goat represents Yahushua in your thinking? Or perhaps you believe that both goats are representative of Messiah Yahushua? Would you please share with me your thinking about these goats?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, all that you say Jesus Christ " above in "IS" is substitutionary.
The confession of the sins of the people from the previous year and placed before GOD in the sanctuary service were cleansed during that yearly Day of Atonement and placed/substituted onto the head of the "scapegoat. Jesus was represented by the "Lord's goat'----Killed and blood sprinkled before the altar of the Lord seven times.
That scapegoat was not "pushed over a cliff and killed"---It was lead afar off from the camp(into the wilderness) and LET GO. (Lev.16:10, 22, 26).

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
The Law of Moses is very much like our U.S. Constitution. The Law can be amended, but great care must be exercised to make sure that the amendment does not add to or take away from the written Torah.
Originally, I must agree that you are correct in saying that the Azazel goat was taken into the Wilderness and released, but over time, Jews recognized that some of the Azazel goats found their way back to the community; therefore, the Elders ordained that the Azazel goat should be taken into the wilderness and hurled from a precipice. No goat ever returned to the community from this fall.
If you like, you can go to Wikipedia and read there what is said about the actual practice with respect to the fate of the Azazel goat. Scroll down to the heading entitled "Rabbinic Judaism" and read what it says.
The actual practice of Judaism is very important in considering the spiritual fulfillment. There does exist a spiritual fulfillment which occurred concerning the Azazel goat and My Messiah Yahushua.
Would you be interested in reading about my take on this fulfillment?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[sincerly]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
The Law of Moses is very much like our U.S. Constitution. The Law can be amended, but great care must be exercised to make sure that the amendment does not add to or take away from the written Torah.
Originally, I must agree that you are correct in saying that the Azazel goat was taken into the Wilderness and released, but over time, Jews recognized that some of the Azazel goats found their way back to the community; therefore, the Elders ordained that the Azazel goat should be taken into the wilderness and hurled from a precipice. No goat ever returned to the community from this fall.
If you like, you can go to Wikipedia and read there what is said about the actual practice with respect to the fate of the Azazel goat. Scroll down to the heading entitled "Rabbinic Judaism" and read what it says.
The actual practice of Judaism is very important in considering the spiritual fulfillment. There does exist a spiritual fulfillment which occurred concerning the Azazel goat and My Messiah Yahushua.
Would you be interested in reading about my take on this fulfillment?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, The U.S. Constitution was made by the people and thereby, provisions were made so that changes could be made.
That which GOD gave can not be changed---that is seen in the "not add to nor diminish from" warning.

That "Azazel" goat was symbolic of the arch-deceiver. Each year the sins of the people were symbolically "cleansed", but Sin and death of that "father of lies" would not be destroyed until the ACTUAL DAY OF ATONEMENT comes about. The deceiver is still very much alive---as seen by a very casual perusal of one's surroundings.

It was by such "changes"of "men's traditions and men's commandments" that the Messiah was rejected 2000 years ago.
Notice that the "Wikipedia" is a fabrication/production of the assumptions of men in agreement or partial toleration of other men's opinions.
"Rabbinic Judaism" is that opinion agreed upon them, but not necessarily the truth. One has to compare their opinion with what is stated in the "inspired writings of the Prophets"---- and not a modern day revision/complication.

Unfortunately, the modern day practice of "Judaism" doesn't line-up/align itself with that which GOD said was "forever" at Sinai.
Yes, Jesus is the promised "Lord's goat" of that Coming "Day of Atonement. AND HE has already made the sacrifice---as was seen in the Prophetic writings and as was
stated, "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world".

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sincerly,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Since you are confident that you know all there is to know about the spiritual fulfillment of the Azazel Goat, then I need not proceed further on that subject, that is, unless you should desire otherwise.
I will, however, challenge your statement that the Torah cannot be added to. Your contention and assertion against amendments to the Torah actually serves to convict someone that should be very dear to you, that is, My Messiah Yahushua, of a very grievous sin, should you contention and assertion actually turn out to be true.
My Messiah Yahushua was born under the Torah, that is under the Law (see Galatians 4:4), and as such HE was required to live according to what the Torah did demand. If it is true as you say that the Torah cannot be added to, then Messiah Yahushua greatly sinned by adding the New Commandment to the Torah on the night in which HE was betrayed.
We know that this commandment from Messiah is an addition because Messiah states that it is a New Commandment. I do not think that you have really thought this issue through; otherwise, you would not be so eager by your assertions to convict My Messiah Yahushua of making an unauthorized change to the Torah and, therefore, quite guilty of a grievous sin according to your expressed estimation and judgment. Shame on you for your charge of sin against My Messiah!
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Shermana]

by adding the New Commandment to the Torah on the night in which HE was betrayed.

What was this new commandment that didn't exist in the Torah?

 

[sincerly]

What was this new commandment that didn't exist in the Torah?

Hi Shermana, Yes, I want to know as well.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Shermana and Sincerely,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you for asking:
John 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Even so, grounds exist for saying that Messiah's New Commandment always existed because of what Solomon had to say about anything new under the sun. In the past, I was somewhat torn on this issue because I was not aware of the renewal or restoration of YAHWEH ELOHIM brought about through the work of Messiah Yahushua. I now believe that this renewal never happened before in previous ages. Messiah's renewal is the first and only happening of this sort, and this renewal took place under the sun. So, there does now exist something new under the sun brought about through the finishing work of Messiah Yahushua. In this regard, see also Hebrews 10:20. This verse directly contradicts the statement of Solomon in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10.
I also believe that Messiah's New Commandment is new because I can find nothing like it in the Law of Moses. The Law commands us to love YAHWEH ELOHIM, and the Law commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves, but no where does the Law command anyone to offer himself or herself as a sacrifice for others in order that others might be saved from their sins. This I believe is a love that is completely new.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[CMike]

Hi Shermana and Sincerely,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you for asking:
John 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Even so, grounds exist for saying that Messiah's New Commandment always existed because of what Solomon had to say about anything new under the sun. In the past, I was somewhat torn on this issue because I was not aware of the renewal or restoration of YAHWEH ELOHIM brought about through the work of Messiah Yahushua. I now believe that this renewal never happened before in previous ages. Messiah's renewal is the first and only happening of this sort, and this renewal took place under the sun. So, there does now exist something new under the sun brought about through the finishing work of Messiah Yahushua. In this regard, see also Hebrews 10:20. This verse directly contradicts the statement of Solomon in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10.
I also believe that Messiah's New Commandment is new because I can find nothing like it in the Law of Moses. The Law commands us to love YAHWEH ELOHIM, and the Law commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves, but no where does the Law command anyone to offer himself or herself as a sacrifice for others in order that others might be saved from their sins. This I believe is a love that is completely new.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

That's rather lame.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18)

Also new commandments may not be added to the Torah

Dvarim/Deuteronomy 13

1. Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

 

[sincerly]

Hi Shermana and Sincerely,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you for asking:
John 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Even so, grounds exist for saying that Messiah's New Commandment always existed because of what Solomon had to say about anything new under the sun. In the past, I was somewhat torn on this issue because I was not aware of the renewal or restoration of YAHWEH ELOHIM brought about through the work of Messiah Yahushua. I now believe that this renewal never happened before in previous ages. Messiah's renewal is the first and only happening of this sort, and this renewal took place under the sun. So, there does now exist something new under the sun brought about through the finishing work of Messiah Yahushua. In this regard, see also Hebrews 10:20. This verse directly contradicts the statement of Solomon in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10.
I also believe that Messiah's New Commandment is new because I can find nothing like it in the Law of Moses. The Law commands us to love YAHWEH ELOHIM, and the Law commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves, but no where does the Law command anyone to offer himself or herself as a sacrifice for others in order that others might be saved from their sins. This I believe is a love that is completely new.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, Thanks for that verse and your thinking in making your conclusion.
Let' explore some scriptural facts.
Does Heb.10:20("By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh contradict Eccl.1:9-10? ("The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us". NO!

Solomon ended that writing with this true assessment/conclusion. (12:13-14, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

Now let's look at John 13:34, " A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. "

Was it "New"? Even John writes again,(1John 2:7-8), "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. "
NO! Why? That "love one another" is the second Great Commandment. What had Jesus seen in the Disciples on the way to that last passover feast? A bickering/envy, positioning for superiority over the others.
What did Jesus do and set as a principle for all who follow GOD?---Wash oneanother's feet/ be a servant to all.(NOT new, but a principle that was well established, but not heeded.) It is seen in the parable of the good Samaritian and the woman at the well. Peter had to re-learn when he was instructed to go to the house of Cornelius(Roman centurion) to instruction he and household into the ways of GOD.
Where is that principle seen(from the beginning)----Deut.6:5, "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. "
And
Lev.19:18, "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD."

Latuwr, Right, No human Being can give their life in exchange for the death penalty imposed by GOD for sinning. Why? because ALL have sinned and have to pay their own death penalty.
Jesus was capable to do so, because HE was the Incarnated SON of GOD the FATHER. Acknowledged so be being the Promised Messiah and Son of GOD by those 12 witnesses---Apostles. John 6:69, "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

As 1Peter 1:19-20 verifies, all this was planned before this world was Created. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

 

[Latuwr]

Hi CMike,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I understand that I am lame. Perhaps, you will be so kind to heal my lameness.
On Saturday September 7, shortly after sunset, my Brother and I separately observed the New Moon of the 7th Moon. On September 16, about one hour before sunset, I began to observe the fast of the 10th Day of the 7th Moon. Of course, this fast is required by the Torah to begin on the 9th Day of the 7th Moon until the end of the 10th Day (see Leviticus 23:32).
If you could be so kind, could you please tell me, upon what day of September, you yourself did begin your fast?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[dantech]

Hi CMike,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I understand that I am lame. Perhaps, you will be so kind to heal my lameness.
On Saturday September 7, shortly after sunset, my Brother and I separately observed the New Moon of the 7th Moon. On September 16, about one hour before sunset, I began to observe the fast of the 10th Day of the 7th Moon. Of course, this fast is required by the Torah to begin on the 9th Day of the 7th Moon until the end of the 10th Day (see Leviticus 23:32).
If you could be so kind, could you please tell me, upon what day of September, you yourself did begin your fast?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

CMike, I, and pretty much all observant Jews fasted starting a little before sundown on the 13th of September until about 25 hours later.

Is there a reason you are asking? And why do you believe that the 10th day of Tishrei (7th biblical month) was on the 16th?

BTW, here is a guide on how the lunar calendar is calculated

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Dantech,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I asked CMike concerning his practice basically to prove to him that new commandments have been added to the Torah many times in the past. Jews are commanded by the Torah to observe the New Moon of Abib so that they might sacrifice the Passover Lamb unto YAHWEH ELOHIM (see Deuteronomy 16:1-2). Of course, this observance commanded by the Torah is a visual observance. Jews were obligated by Law to go outside and look for the New Moon so that the days of the moon could be established.
With the destruction of the Temple, the Jewish Elders determined that New Moons henceforth should be calculated, and Jews thereby no longer depend upon the visual sighting of any New Moon to determine the Holy Days.
The calculated lunar calender is a new commandment in my book which does add to and does take away from the Torah. Of course, this year's calculcated Rosh Hashanah is a good example because it is far removed from the original requirements of the Torah concerning that Day. Please follow this link and enter September 5 and your location, and you will see that the moon that evening sets 8 minutes before sunset, and check out September 4 and you will see that the moon on that day is still a waning crescent:
Current Moon Phase & Information
My brother and I did not see the New Crescent of the 7th Moon until Saturday evening on the 7th of September. We therefore celebrated Rosh Hashanah on Sunday the 8th of September (I see from your link that Sunday is against a rule) and Yom Kippur on the 17th of September as commanded by YAHWEH ELOHIM.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
P.S. Btw, thank you for the link. My rule # 1 for seeing a New Moon: Go outside and look for it as lame as that may be!

 

[RabbiO]

Is there a reason you are asking? And why do you believe that the 10th day of Tishrei (7th biblical month) was on the 16th?

The tradition indicates that our present calendar was introduced in the 4th century C.E. by Hillel II. That is probably not completely accurate, the present calendar may not have become completely set until as late as the 10th century C.E.

There are various groups, among them the Karaites, who believe that our current calendar is at variance with the mandates of the Torah. For example, they believe that if one calculated pursuant to the Torah then Erev Yom Kippur fell on September 16 of 2013.

Peter