Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
It's just rather sad that people who support the other candidates are considered "educated" by comparison.
*shudder*
*shudder*
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Donald Trump’s surge is all about less-educated Americans
- Thread starter Quetzal
- Start date
I disagree completely.
If all the undocumented left the country, the free market would adjust the price of labor to the true value. Unemployment would disappear, and wages would skyrocket. We would not need to argue about minimum wage any more.
Lots of things that are currently subsidised by our immigration policies would change radically. Maybe picking produce really is worth $20 hour in a free market. Maybe the factory job currently paying $13 hour will be found to remain profitable at $25. Other prices will drop. Lower demand for gasoline and housing will put downward pressure on the prices of those sorts of goods, since undocumented people won't be buying them any more. School systems and other government services available to all will also see a drop in low income users.
Effective immigration reform would be a win for every USA citizen except for Wall Street. Which is why you won't see it.
Tom
A lot of wishful thinking in there, I don't suppose you have any evidence to back it up... do ya?
Such as what? The free market system in the USA?
Tom
dust1n
Zindīq
OR it would just be cheaper to get robots to milk a cow.
Why do people seem to think that the free market system would suddenly disappear if we instituted immigration reform?
Tom
dust1n
Zindīq
What about lowering unit cost is outside the realm of the free market?
What about the production of milk makes it as important as wages, unemployment, or prices?
Tom
So... the answer is no, you do not have evidence to support yourself.
dust1n
Zindīq
Namely that it would be cheaper to do automate your milk farm, then it would be to hire Americans $25 an hour to accomplish the same work. So getting rid of a cheap labor pool does not entail automatically having to take on a way overvalued labor pool. It entails me investing in technology that will require less labor, so that it's cheaper to produce milk. So, it's not going to assist anyone in wages or unemployment, and the prices would reflect the increase.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
So they loose their source of cheap labor, and then replace it with robots. The price of our produce would go up. And our wages will not go up.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/artcard...erican-workers-the-answer-might-surprise-you/
According to an April 2015 symposium on the effects of illegal immigrants in the Southern Economic Journal, illegal immigrants actually raise wages for documented/native workers. Meanwhile, rules preventing illegal immigrants from getting driver’s licenses raise our car insurance premiums and E-Verify requirements raise the cost of doing business and reduce employment.
I think the existence of free markets in the USA sufficiently well established. If you would like more evidence for that belief perhaps @Revoltingest is better able to provide it.
Tom
OH NO, come on, Tom. As tempting as it is to call on @Revoltingest for a celebrity trick shot, I want to hear it from you. You used numbers and statistics in your prediction. I want to know where you got them from. Or you can simply say you made them up. Doesn't mean any less to me.
I think you and @Shadow Wolf are kidding yourselves about the ability of robots to replace human labor.
Tom
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The free-market would still exist. However, if all undocumented workers went home today, those of us still here would be economically punished for it tomorrow.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No, I'm not. We have self-stabilizing robots now, nano-robots, fast-food robots, and robots for many other things. They have already replaced a ton of jobs in various places, so why shouldn't it be assumed they will replace more as technology improves?I think you and@Shadow Wolf are kidding yourselves about the ability of robots to replace human labor.
I used a couple of hypothetical wage rates to illustrate my point.
No statistics at all.
How about you respond to my point? Let me repeat it.
Immigration reform would benefit the large majority of USA wage earners. But it would not benefit the "investment class", which is why nobody will discuss effective reform. Start prosecuting the criminals who hire the undocumented and the USA would change enormously for USA wage earners. Wall Street will be the losers.
Tom
How about some evidence for these claims right here? I am not arguing that more aggressive prosecution would unhelpful, I just think you are way too optimistic about the fruits of the labor, so to speak.
In what way?
Tom