Don't Blame Me For Not Accepting Jesus

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Sure, a "stop gap measure" to stop them by drowning them! I don't believe the flood ever happened in a literal sense of course, despite Young Earthers pointing to the Grand Canyon as "evidence", and I'm not quite sure what an "allegorical flood" means. I think it becomes a case of "Cafeteria Christianity" when you relegate parts of the bible that don't sit easily with you to allegorical, and keep the parts you like as literal. Do you believe Jonah literally spent three days inside the belly of a fish for example, or is that allegorical?

Since we're free to decide which parts of the Bible we'd like to call allegorical, let's start with the idea of a god, which can be said to represent man's future and his ongoing perfection. "God" is the limit of this process - the potential future of man.

The resurrection can be said to represent the Renaissance and Enlightenment, when man's secular pursuits, hibernating for centuries throughout the Middle Ages, rose from the dead. That was when man was born again.

The holy trinity would be reason, emotion, and the conscience - three aspects of thought. Or it could be thought, sensation, and volition.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I'm programmed to.


LOL. I'm not perfect, but I did learn to cut the crap.


If you don't, it's just a pretty rock. It's worth zilch until you assign it worth.
edit: And then there's THIS problem:

What promise? Eternal life? Peaceful afterlife? Pretty sure others advertised such things way before Jesus.


By having faith in Moses' sense of direction, a week-long walk took 40 years.


I seem to recall them complaining about food, which is why God sent them bug poop and probably poisoned or diseased birds.


Anyone from the region probably understood it was a week-long walk. I'd lose faith in someone who took me on a 4 decade jaunt because it proves he's a moron.


They were ripped from their homes, encouraged to loot and possibly kill (I suspect the Exodus story of lamb's blood and an angel of death are talking about some terrorism thing where tagging your door allowed you to live as the rebels swept through the neighborhood, because I just have trouble believing God can't tell a Hebrew from an Egyptian like an average racist), and were forced to follow a religious terrorist 4 decades for a week-long trip. I'd be mad too.


But you only wish the bible were as true as you think.


It's a multi-million dollar industry because dead people don't pay their medical bills.


If they were advanced, they'd know how to screen blood for problems.

We do, after all.


You cannot replace your blood with normal saline and be alive. Blood is the deciding factor. You are confusing living thanks to increased blood pressure and living because oxygen and other nutrients are reaching your cells.


Recently had a patient spend some time in the hospital instead of the nursing home. She had to have a procedure done because of a blood clot. They sent her back without the problem that can cause strokes being fixed because .... wanna take a guess? Hope she likes an increased risk of paralysis, mental degradation, and death...

Amusingly enough, I was under the impression Parents should "Parent" Their kids...


And beating people up with bullwhips (showing us that as one judges, so that person shall be judged, because whips were then used on him) isn't exactly hugging and kissing, either.


Yup.


Yes, the whole "the eye and the hand" thing Jesus mentioned

Some see, some hear, some do, some poop ....

(Pooping is a necessary part of human biology, so technically it's not an insult.)


Our countries are arbitrary and ultimately temporary human constructs. How does one stop being God's creation?


She has mentioned before she cannot understand scientific journals (I linked her some that didn't require payment) and it wouldn't matter anyway since her denomination requires a distrust of "scholars", aka: the people who bothered to look up the data.


Babylonian sources?

Since we're free to decide which parts of the Bible we'd like to call allegorical, let's start with the idea of a god, which can be said to represent man's future and his ongoing perfection. "God" is the limit of this process - the potential future of man.

The resurrection can be said to represent the Renaissance and Enlightenment, when man's secular pursuits, hibernating for centuries throughout the Middle Ages, rose from the dead. That was when man was born again.

The holy trinity would be reason, emotion, and the conscience - three aspects of thought. Or it could be thought, sensation, and volition.

LOL, yup. For some reason, manna can come from heaven but I guess there was a sale or something because it hasn't happened since.

I'm programmed to.


LOL. I'm not perfect, but I did learn to cut the crap.


If you don't, it's just a pretty rock. It's worth zilch until you assign it worth.
edit: And then there's THIS problem:

What promise? Eternal life? Peaceful afterlife? Pretty sure others advertised such things way before Jesus.


By having faith in Moses' sense of direction, a week-long walk took 40 years.


I seem to recall them complaining about food, which is why God sent them bug poop and probably poisoned or diseased birds.


Anyone from the region probably understood it was a week-long walk. I'd lose faith in someone who took me on a 4 decade jaunt because it proves he's a moron.


They were ripped from their homes, encouraged to loot and possibly kill (I suspect the Exodus story of lamb's blood and an angel of death are talking about some terrorism thing where tagging your door allowed you to live as the rebels swept through the neighborhood, because I just have trouble believing God can't tell a Hebrew from an Egyptian like an average racist), and were forced to follow a religious terrorist 4 decades for a week-long trip. I'd be mad too.


But you only wish the bible were as true as you think.


It's a multi-million dollar industry because dead people don't pay their medical bills.


If they were advanced, they'd know how to screen blood for problems.

We do, after all.


You cannot replace your blood with normal saline and be alive. Blood is the deciding factor. You are confusing living thanks to increased blood pressure and living because oxygen and other nutrients are reaching your cells.


Recently had a patient spend some time in the hospital instead of the nursing home. She had to have a procedure done because of a blood clot. They sent her back without the problem that can cause strokes being fixed because .... wanna take a guess? Hope she likes an increased risk of paralysis, mental degradation, and death...

Amusingly enough, I was under the impression Parents should "Parent" Their kids...


And beating people up with bullwhips (showing us that as one judges, so that person shall be judged, because whips were then used on him) isn't exactly hugging and kissing, either.


Yup.


Yes, the whole "the eye and the hand" thing Jesus mentioned

Some see, some hear, some do, some poop ....

(Pooping is a necessary part of human biology, so technically it's not an insult.)


Our countries are arbitrary and ultimately temporary human constructs. How does one stop being God's creation?


She has mentioned before she cannot understand scientific journals (I linked her some that didn't require payment) and it wouldn't matter anyway since her denomination requires a distrust of "scholars", aka: the people who bothered to look up the data.


Babylonian sources?


LOL, yup. For some reason, manna can come from heaven but I guess there was a sale or something because it hasn't happened since.

Damn Kelly, go girl! Did you swallow a Christopher Hitchens book for breakfast today?

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Since we're free to decide which parts of the Bible we'd like to call allegorical, let's start with the idea of a god, which can be said to represent man's future and his ongoing perfection. "God" is the limit of this process - the potential future of man.

The resurrection can be said to represent the Renaissance and Enlightenment, when man's secular pursuits, hibernating for centuries throughout the Middle Ages, rose from the dead. That was when man was born again.

The holy trinity would be reason, emotion, and the conscience - three aspects of thought. Or it could be thought, sensation, and volition.

I like it my friend, it may be what Christianity ends up becoming one day.

 

[Kenny]

When Jesus comes as judge, he will do battle with opposers using his own angelic forces....not human ones.

2 Thessalonians 1:4-10:
"As a result we ourselves take pride in you among the congregations of God because of your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and the hardships that you are suffering. 5 This is a proof of the righteous judgment of God, leading to your being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are indeed suffering.
6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you."

Christ never advocated violence for his disciples......ever.
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You just contradicted yourself with this scriptures.

If I am not mistaken, blood will be pretty deep during tribulation.

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As Paul said....
"Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good."

You think returning evil for evil was something Christ advocated? Not according to Paul. We are to "conquer evil with good"....not guns.
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The problem you have here is you are determining what is evil. I remember the parable of the man who was beaten by robbers and a pharisee and a levite passed by and did nothing. Those were evil people.

It sounds like you also advocate to doing nothing.


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It wasn't that they were not allowed...they did not seek political office until the foretold apostasy was well and truly established.
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In your humble opinion through your indoctrination. You see, you never explain away the reality that the OT is filled with God ordained political figures as also declared by Romans in the NT that they are place by God for ministers for good.
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Bloodshed was common under Constantine and continued for centuries.
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Yes... like murder vs self defense, there is a time not to shed blood and there is a time to shed.

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Christians were to be imitators of Christ who never once involved himself in the political situation of his own people under the oppressive Roman yoke. He made no comment about the political situation....his primary focus was the religious mess his people were in.
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His reason for coming was to deal with sin. He also made many comments such as to the one that ordered his demise "
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above."

You see, the problem you face is that you take what you were taught as a strainer and whenever the scriptures violate your position, you strain it out.

I prefer using scripture as the strainer and take what people say and throw out what doesn't conform to scripture.

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Or perhaps it is more correct to say it is your own favored interpretation of the Bible....I once followed that interpretation too and it bugged me to death. Seeing the blatant hypocrisy for myself first hand caused me to seek God elsewhere.
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Maybe Rom 14 will help you

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There is not one scripture that says Cornelius remained in the military after his conversion. History attests to the fact that the very early Christians refused to fight for their governments.
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There is not one scripture or intimation that Cornelius then renounced his position. He was serving God through prayer and alms and God answered his prayers.


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“A careful review of all the information available [shows] that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity.

“The behavior of the [early] Christians was very different from that of the Romans. . . . Since Christ had preached peace, they refused to become soldiers.”—Our World Through the Ages.
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Perhaps it would behove you to study what was Rome doing, their state of being, their condition in 121-180AD, and what were there goals.

As a Christian, I wouldn't have joined either.

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Because Christ’s disciples refused to serve in the emperor’s legions, the Romans put many of them to death.
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You are funny.

Nero blamed Christians for what he did in 64AD. Because A therefore B is a fallacy.

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John the Baptist was talking to Jews, not Christians. If you recall, John was killed before Jesus was. Christianity was not yet separated from Judaism.
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OHHHHHH! As the greatest prophet of all, John didn't know what he was talking about ! Got it!

It doesn't match your theology because of your indoctrination so you strain it out!

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Again, there is no indication from scripture that Sergius Paulus, (who was already in political office when he became a believer under Paul's guidance,) remained in that office. It may well be that after a thorough study of Christ's teachings, he saw the need to separate from the political world.
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Strainer

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David was a Jew, not a Christian. They are two completely separate systems, not because one is more "right" than the other, but because the Jewish religion by the time of Christ was well and truly apostate. Jesus ministry was a correction for that religious system, which they failed to heed.
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Strainer... God is the same, yesterday and today and forever and when Jesus returns He will institute a God government.

If there is NO SALT in politics or any other arena, wherewith will it be sanctified? Light MUST shine in the darkness.

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY "When you get save, if you are in the government, QUIT!" Only in your indoctrination

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Christianity was a new arrangement, under a new covenant. The old one was done away with, as a written code, but the principles remained.
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EXACTLY!!!!!!

The principle is build God's Kingdom in every arena.

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"An ambassador is an official envoy, especially a highest ranking diplomat who represents a state and is usually accredited to another sovereign state, or to an international organization as the resident representative of their own government or sovereign or appointed for a special and often temporary diplomatic assignment. The word is also often used more liberally for persons who are known, without national appointment, to represent certain professions, activities and fields of endeavor such as sales." (Wiki)

It is a diplomatic role reserved specifically for ensuring peaceful relations with a foreign country to which they are assigned, to look after the interests of their own nation. An ambassador has nothing to do with the politics of the nation he is sent to.

I disagree... to ensure peaceful relations with a foreign country is to talk and interact with those politicians.

Please don't use Wiki as a dictionary... it isn't pne.

Merriam Webster -: an official envoy; especially : a diplomatic agent of the highest rank accredited to a foreign government or sovereign as the resident representative of his or her own government or sovereign or appointed for a special and often temporary diplomatic assignment She's the American ambassador to Italy.

from one government to another.

 

[Kenny]

Again you are confusing the Jewish system with the Christianity. Joseph existed before Israel became a nation. He was used to make sure that the "seed" od Abraham survived to eventually produce the Messiah.

Strainer.

As the seed of Abraham who is the father of faith, of which I am, even before the law existed was involved in politics. GOD placed him there.

Daniel was also used help to keep the faithful ones of his nation from succumbing to the Babylonian influences whilst they were exiled for their disobedience....his loyalty to his God was admired by the King who lost sleep worrying about Daniel in the lions' den.

Shadrack, Meshak and Abednego were among those faithful ones whom the Babylonian King was tricked into sentencing to a fiery death. He was pleased to see that Israel's God was stronger than the gods of Babylon when he delivered them. They were all Jewish.

Strainer.

GOD placed them there.

That is true....but the political elements have always been at the forefront of the persecution....religious influence was next, just as it was in Jesus' day.

Absolutely. And take Christians out from there, as the salt and light, and it will happen again.

And if you remember, Jesus chastised Peter for using it. The whole idea was to demonstrate that even though they were armed, they would NOT resort to violence. Two swords against an armed mob was hardly going to gain them a victory. Jesus said he didn't need the swords because 12 legions of angels could be dispatched at his request.

No. Jesus wasn't double minded "Get the sword and now don't use it". But rather "Don't try to stop what I came to do".

Wrong time, wrong purpose.

And in what situation of war are Christians to die for the sake of the gospel? They die as victims of injustice, not as armed combatants. JW's were killed in Nazi Germany for refusing to heil Hitler and serve in his military forces. They were also persecuted on the other side for the same reason. (John 15:18-21) That is what political neutrality looks like.

As were Jews, Christians and those who were anti-Nazi.

Personally, I'm glad we stopped the murder of the innocent. I like being the Samaritan vs the Pharisee or the Levite in the parable.

Judaism, Islam and Christianity can all claim to be "Abrahamic"....yet they could not be further apart. For Christendom to adopt a trinity when the others still refuse to this day, says something IMO. There was no trinity in the OT. There is no trinity in the NT either.

You are correct.. however, there was trinity in the OT AND the NT.

Of course, it will become a debate as it was in the time of Jesus when they wanted to stone him for making himself equal to Gdo.

Where? Please quote chapter and verse.
As far as I am aware, Israel was unique in having just one God......and he never had three heads. Pagans had plenty of them. Look up pagan trinities and you will see.

1) You are a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body but you still have one head.
2) Among MANY:
For example, in one particular text the prophet Isaiah not only refers to Yahweh as the One who created the cosmos but also speaks of Yahweh being sent by Yahweh and his Spirit!

“… I will not yield my glory to another. Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I AM he; I am the First and I am the Last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together. Come together, all of you, and listen: Which of the idols has foretold these things? Yahweh's chosen ally will carry out his purpose against Babylon; his arm will be against the Babylonians. I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him. I will bring him, and he will succeed in his mission. Come near me and listen to this: From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; from the time it came to be I have been there. And now the Lord Yahweh has sent Me, with his Spirit. This is what Yahweh says — your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: ‘I am Yahweh your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.’” Isaiah 48:11b-17

Needless to say many Christians over the centuries have taken this passage as an OT witness to the Trinity, as can be seen from the following commentaries.

and now the Lord God and his Spirit hath sent me; in the fulness of time, in the likeness of sinful flesh, to preach the Gospel, fulfil the law, and to redeem and save the Lord's people. Here is a glorious testimony of a trinity of Persons in the Godhead; Christ the Son of God is sent in human nature, and as Mediator Jehovah the Father and the Spirit are the senders of him; and so is a proof of the mission, commission, and authority of Christ, who came not of himself, but was sent of God, (John 8:42), it may be rendered, "and now the Lord God hath sent me and his Spirit"; both were sent of God, and in this order; first, Christ, to be the Redeemer and Saviour; and then the Spirit, to be the Convincer and Comforter; see (John 14:26) (15:26) (16:7,8) (The New John Gill Exposition of the Holy Bible; underline emphasis ours)

And, yes, this is another:

Deuteronomy 6:4:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord - the existing one - God

is our God; plural Eloyhim

is one Lord." and still one!!

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Yes it was, but only in pagan religions.
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Obviously according to your indoctrination

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Indeed, but Christianity NEVER imitated paganism......Christendom did that.
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Only according to your indoctrination.

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Since Jews did not, and still do not believe that God is a triune being, Christ as a devout Jew, never taught such a lie.
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This is funny. You have atheist Jews, Hindu Jews, Buddhists Jews et al. You also have Messianic Jews who believe in the Godhead.

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Since when can a single god have three distinct personalities? Where one part of God prays to another part of himself? That the Father can know things that the son does not? Where is it written in scripture that Jesus ever said "I am God Almighty"?
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Since when did man have three parts according to 1 These 5:23? Since God created man in His image and in His likeness.

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We are made in God's image and if we manifest multiple personalities, we are treated for mental illness, not as having God's attributes. It is a symptom of extreme abuse usually, so nothing good produces multiple personalities in humans.
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You mean like Paul said when his flesh fights against his spirit and the things he doesn't want to do he does and those things he wants to do he doesn't?

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Calling YHWH one god even though he is promoted as having three heads, is still a plurality of gods.
It is polytheism thinly disguised.
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According to your indoctrination

Shalom

 

[Kenny]

Lol, I ask for a good argument and all you have is a snide remark. Thank you for proving my point.

LOL -- what else could I do when all you offered was a statement that was an unsupported personal opinion?

 

[Kenny]

I

Yes, the whole "the eye and the hand" thing Jesus mentioned

Some see, some hear, some do, some poop ....

(Pooping is a necessary part of human biology, so technically it's not an insult.)

LOL

YUP!! Babies poop and don't know that we would prefer they use the Super Bowl!

 

[JustWondering]

LOL -- what else could I do when all you offered was a statement that was an unsupported personal opinion?

Offered one of your good arguments I suppose but apparently you don't have any to offer.

 

[Kenny]

Offered one of your good arguments I suppose but apparently you don't have any to offer.

I given more than what is needed. If you haven't countered and all you offer is an unsupported opinion then nothing I say will ever suffice.

 

[JustWondering]

I given more than what is needed. If you haven't countered and all you offer is an unsupported opinion then nothing I say will ever suffice.

Actually you jumped in after I responded to another poster to back them up that there are good arguments to support Christianity. YOU chimed in with an opinion. That's all theists ever really have to contribute, unsupported opinions. So I shouldn't be surprised that once again, a theist has nothing of any substance to say.

 

[Kenny]

. That's all theists ever really have to contribute, unsupported opinions. So I shouldn't be surprised that once again, a theist has nothing of any substance to say.

]]

I'm not surprised at your attack, it is the only weapon one uses when they have nothing to add.

 

[JustWondering]

]]

I'm not surprised at your attack, it is the only weapon one uses when they have nothing to add.

Where's your good argument?! I'm still waiting for it.

 

[Corvus]

Jesus if he ever existed, is long dead. The worship of zombie/undead Jesus, is no different from a cargo cult worshiping some long dead sailor. There can be no blame attached for failing to 'accept' Jesus, which really means, accept without question, mindless articles of faith and dogma. You cannot reasonably be expected to commit intellectual suicide by ''accepting Jesus'', that would be entirely irrational.
One does not need false Gods. One does not need to worry about rejecting them, rejecting them is completely logical.

 

[Kenny]

Where's your good argument?! I'm still waiting for it.

What good arguments? I have yet to see a good argument for religion.

It got John Newton out of the slave trade.

It caused William Wilberforce to go from politician to one who was used to stop slave trade.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Don't Blame Me For Not Accepting Jesus!

As the Messiah for instance because that's the most important Christian claim based on the gospel of Paul. The point is that Jesus could not have been the Messiah as an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to accept a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not suppose to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, we have Prophet Habakkuk in 3:13 who says, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

 

[Kenny]

As the Messiah for instance because that's the most important Christian claim based on the gospel of Paul.
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Actually it is also based on Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Peter along with the prophets.

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The point is that Jesus could not have been the Messiah as an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to accept a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not suppose to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Then, we have Prophet Habakkuk in 3:13 who says, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

yes... you really have pointed out exactly why it has been a problem.

We too believe the scriptures that you mentioned. The problem has always been that many Jews were waiting for the reigning Messiah and didn't see the scriptures about the same person... the suffering Messiah.

Incidentally, He is and remains alive and Lord forever.

 

[Olinda]

I realise this. After the HIV scare in the 80's lots of people began to question the safety of blood transfusions. But the main group who consistently refused blood was JW's.

Yes, the safety of blood transfusions was increasingly questioned. The quote that follows illustrates the JW activities of disseminating information. It does not state, let alone prove that JWs led the progress towards more caution in administering blood transfusions.
From your quote. . .
But more recently, Nunes says, attention has shifted: “Now, our focus is on being more efficient in our use of blood products.”
Please notice that this is a very different position from not using blood transfusions at all...including storing the patients blood for use if needed. Your church forbids this entirely, as I understand.

Just like all blood transfusions led to complete recovery, you mean? Physicians have noted that JW patients recover faster with less hospital stay time than patients who accepted blood for the same procedures.

Nice try, @Deeje. You claimed, twice over, that JWs are "living proof" that blood transfusions are unnecessary and/or harmful, whereas I have never claimed that patients given blood always recover. I asked you to back up your assertion, and all you did was sidestep.

I believe that more transfusions caused death than ever saved lives. It wouldn't be on the death certificate though.

As you so often say to others, you are entitled to your opinion. With nothing to back it up, opinion is all that it is.

We are living proof that the dire consequences predicted by doctors hardly ever happen. Those who died because they refused blood would in all likelihood have died anyway.

Without statistics, that is just verbiage.

To lose one's present life in order to preserve our future life is acceptable to us and to God. It is the reason why all Christian martyrs chose death rather than to compromise their convictions....

But they did die. Surely you can see that they were not "living proof" that blood transfusions are not helpful. Quite the opposite.

Been there, done that.

If you believe so, please indicate where you have refuted the concerns at your misunderstanding of the message of that video.

You are entitled to your beliefs, but no one should ever declare that blood transfusions "safe".

Not sure what you mean by putting 'safe' in quote marks. All medical procedures carry a degree of risk, especially transplants. Doctors try to balance the risk of the procedure against the risk of not acting. I hope this is clearer to you now.

 

[JustWondering]

It got John Newton out of the slave trade.

It caused William Wilberforce to go from politician to one who was used to stop slave trade.

And? Religion was used to endorse slavery as well. Why is it that one Christian could hold up the bible and declare slavery wrong and another held up the bible and declared slavery was endorsed by god? Jesus said slaves should obey their masters. Sounds like another case of people believing what they want and THEN running to the bible to find something in it to support their views. You'll need to do better than this to convince an atheist your religion is worth taking seriously.

 

[Kenny]

And? Religion was used to endorse slavery as well. .

All you asked for is an example of how it can help and/or change a life.

I have provided you an example of how it helped people.

If you don't like it, I can't help you.

PS I knew no answer would be a good enough answer because you really aren't asking any questions. You are simply stating your position.

As a free will spiritual agent, you have every right to believe what you want to believe. And I'm certainly not trying to convince you

 

[JustWondering]

All you asked for is an example of how it can help and/or change a life.

I have provided you an example of how it helped people.

If you don't like it, I can't help you.

PS I knew no answer would be a good enough answer because you really aren't asking any questions. You are simply stating your position.

As a free will spiritual agent, you have every right to believe what you want to believe. And I'm certainly not trying to convince you

Just as no argument will convince you that your beliefs are based on mythology that has no basis in reality.

You initially made the claim you had a good argument for your position, I wanted to hear it. If you don't want people to want you to back up your claims, the easiest way would to do that would be to not make claims in the first place.