Why? There's no need to read the Vedas to come to know Brahman. For some it may be helpful, for others it may not be needed at all.
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Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Why? There's no need to read the Vedas to come to know Brahman. For some it may be helpful, for others it may not be needed at all.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Veda.
Anybody, please
Regards
I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Veda.
Can one acquire knowledge without reading Veda? Please
Anybody, please
Regards
Yes.
Yes of course you can. All it takes is a set of eyes. Does the child learn that a stove is hot by reading the Vedas?
Everyone can acquire knowledge, and even specifically religious wisdom, by means other than the reading of texts.
If anything, adherents in good faith should strive to be grateful for the effort of those who transmitted wisdom to them and further and improve on that transmission and pay it forward.
Impressive as the Vedas are, they are still only text. And text has the very significant shortcoming of lacking the means for perceiving specific people and specific situations and adjust accordingly.
If I may, allow me to remark that there seems to be a striking contrast between the Islamic and Hindu perspectives in this regard.
Muslims tend to take refuge in the Qur'an and to make a point of having a measure of mistrust on the understandings of people and of Ahadith. We keep being told and reminded that the Qur'an is perfect and supreme, with the implication that anyone who tries "too hard" to know better than the Suras will unavoidably corrupt the pure message from God.
Hindus, by contrast, quite often embrace the sacred opportunity that is taking part in lines of religious transmission (although it is certainly possible for those so inclined to practice Hinduism on their own as well). They establish links of mutual trust and respect with their own Sampradayas and their members and rarely feel any significant need of convincing those from the outside. That by no means implies that different Sampradayas are "less" Hindu than others, although their interpretations and practices may vary significantly.
To put it in what hopefully is not too inapropriate a way, Hindus trust their religion enough to realize and heartily accept and even embrace the diversity of interpretations.
And if that suggests that the religious truth is not rigid and unchanging among various sincere practicioners... well, I for one can hardly see any fault in that. I would even say that it is supposed to.
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Paarsurrey, do you actually believe that the one and only way for you to acquire knowledge is through the Koran? Not in grade school, not in university, not by listening to parents, not by talking with friends, not by going on forums to dialogue with other people, not by direct experience? Is this what you believe?
Maybe @paarsurrey means not exactly knowledge as the English word defines it, but some form of trustworthy, privileged information about higher plans and purposes?
In other words, literal divine revelation?
If that is so, I want to point out that those who believe in a Creator God should perhaps consider that human perception, reason and discernment are at least implicitly also part of divine creation (if I understood that idea correctly, that is). Therefore there is no obvious reason why a person could not conceivably have better insight than even a perfect, legitimate revelation that is nonetheless static text.
To put it in other words: people should not hesitate to dare to learn and grow, with or without the direct help of religious texts. Surely God (if He exists) knows that honest effort deserves respect and may well give fruitful achievements.
In other words, literal divine revelation?
If that is so, I want to point out that those who believe in a Creator God should perhaps consider that human perception, reason and discernment are at least implicitly also part of divine creation (if I understood that idea correctly, that is). Therefore there is no obvious reason why a person could not conceivably have better insight than even a perfect, legitimate revelation that is nonetheless static text.
To put it in other words: people should not hesitate to dare to learn and grow, with or without the direct help of religious texts. Surely God (if He exists) knows that honest effort deserves respect and may well give fruitful achievements.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Veda Scripture- The Compressed One
I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is compiled which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part of it in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information in this connection, please.
The latest on the blueprint of the above is like this to summarize:
1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept mostly as it is. I understand that it is about 1000 ± pages, not possible to read by a busy person, therefore, it also needs compression as is evident. The elite class of Brahmins wanted to create as many as possible obstacles to keep Veda out of reach of an ordinary man, it is one such obstacle. Rigveda is also to be compressed, therefore, however, references will be provided so that one who wants to go to detailed study of Veda could access them. Right? Please
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primarily derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, It will be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating to that effect.
3.I have read Yajurveda from cover to cover . I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed and only references provided in the original one.
4.We get a clue from post #18 ,#43, in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Veda believers, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Veda, and that is a wrong concept. Right? Please
#42 #49
In terms of the posts mentioned above, one may conclude following reasonable options:
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends who ascribe themselves to Vedas help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself. Right? Please
6.We get a clue from post #79 that Veda is not to be taken literal, it is in symbols and metaphors.#80,#5 friend
@Madhuri Post #4 ,friend
@ratikala post #15 , friend
@Sunstone post #9
, and friend
@SomeRandom post #16 describes, "But I tend to interpret things metaphorically rather than most traditional Hindus. But even still how can we possibly fathom the true form? The idols may contain the presence or energy or whatever one wishes to call it of the Nameless formless one, but they are still approximations"
7. We get a clue from post #23 in another thread that there is too much monotony in Rigveda. So for minimizing it only some or more representative passages/verses should go to the compressed Rigveda but their references will be provided as mentioned in point one above. Please
8. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, God and gods are different things.Friend
@Madhuri Post #87 God is the source of the gods. And I think it says in the text that the Supreme God IS Hiranyagarbha; not that the Supreme God is created from the egg.These parts of Veda must be given preference over anything else #52. Right? Please.
9. Veda was once one book in terms of post #31 , #65 this way it will become one again from the four or many Vedas 105 .
Anybody, please
10. I understand from
@Aupmanyav that the hymns of Veda have no chronological order, and (now my opinion) perhaps not even arranged subject-wise or under any system commanded by Brahman and are in a haphazard form. I would like some system in their arrangement and will like some suggestions to this effect for the Compressed Veda. Please
11.I understand from some posts that there are some "contradictions and differences" in Veda.In such a voluminous scriptures this was inevitable due to the human factor. If friends agree then the ones who are in line with the common sense and or with Quran those would be retained and the others will be compressed but references provided in the footnotes, so that those interested could access them and read them. Post #561, #565 .
12. Vedas were revealed on Rishis, and rishis are one's senses and also one's satguru, friend
@atanu told us in post #28. If he is right, and there is no reason of him being wrong, then everybody having senses could understand and interpret Veda and Veda is for him , Brhamin or Shudra or Daulit or untouchanble or anybody/everybody else in any part of the world or whatever religion. Right? Please
13.We get clue from post #18 from friend
@Satyamavejayanti , and post #19 from friend
@HarihOm that there are no myths in the Vedas. Also as per post #23
and post #24 and as per the statement quoted from Wikipedia by friend @Jainarayan which has a sentence that "n popular use, a myth can be a collectively held belief that has no basis in fact ".(please correct me if I am wrong), unless it is allegoric and for this a set principle is laid down in Veda. If not, only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
14. The imperfect Gods mentioned in Veda no more fight, may be they got perfected, or they have killed one another so the verses in which these have been mentioned in Veda and implored for help by the priestly class and the sacrifices offered to them are no more needed. Such places/verses need to be compressed and only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
15. Every chapter/verse of Veda needs to be classified from the flora, fauna and or big trees of a region mentioned in them, if they belong to the 1)Arctic or were 2)written in the "steppes" or in 3)the Indian-sub-Continent or in 4)Australia or in 5) Africa or 6) elsewhere in the word. Right? Please #92
Please
Note: One may like to read post #10 in another sub-forum related here. Please
Regards
I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is compiled which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part of it in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information in this connection, please.
The latest on the blueprint of the above is like this to summarize:
1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept mostly as it is. I understand that it is about 1000 ± pages, not possible to read by a busy person, therefore, it also needs compression as is evident. The elite class of Brahmins wanted to create as many as possible obstacles to keep Veda out of reach of an ordinary man, it is one such obstacle. Rigveda is also to be compressed, therefore, however, references will be provided so that one who wants to go to detailed study of Veda could access them. Right? Please
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primarily derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, It will be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating to that effect.
3.I have read Yajurveda from cover to cover . I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed and only references provided in the original one.
4.We get a clue from post #18 ,#43, in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Veda believers, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Veda, and that is a wrong concept. Right? Please
#42 #49
In terms of the posts mentioned above, one may conclude following reasonable options:
- One should make the confirmed opinion that Veda people were not a peaceful people. They were most of the time fighting with others and invoking the god/idols for helping in this cause, they needed war spoils for their livelihood and were offering sacrifices only to this end.
- Rishis never taught such things, they were peaceful, all these verses had been made-up by the narrators/scribes/priests for their own ends.
- Hence all such verses in all Vedas need to be compressed and only reference provided to historical reason.
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends who ascribe themselves to Vedas help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself. Right? Please
6.We get a clue from post #79 that Veda is not to be taken literal, it is in symbols and metaphors.#80,#5 friend
, and friend
7. We get a clue from post #23 in another thread that there is too much monotony in Rigveda. So for minimizing it only some or more representative passages/verses should go to the compressed Rigveda but their references will be provided as mentioned in point one above. Please
8. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, God and gods are different things.Friend
9. Veda was once one book in terms of post #31 , #65 this way it will become one again from the four or many Vedas 105 .
Anybody, please
10. I understand from
11.I understand from some posts that there are some "contradictions and differences" in Veda.In such a voluminous scriptures this was inevitable due to the human factor. If friends agree then the ones who are in line with the common sense and or with Quran those would be retained and the others will be compressed but references provided in the footnotes, so that those interested could access them and read them. Post #561, #565 .
12. Vedas were revealed on Rishis, and rishis are one's senses and also one's satguru, friend
13.We get clue from post #18 from friend
and post #24 and as per the statement quoted from Wikipedia by friend @Jainarayan which has a sentence that "n popular use, a myth can be a collectively held belief that has no basis in fact ".(please correct me if I am wrong), unless it is allegoric and for this a set principle is laid down in Veda. If not, only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
14. The imperfect Gods mentioned in Veda no more fight, may be they got perfected, or they have killed one another so the verses in which these have been mentioned in Veda and implored for help by the priestly class and the sacrifices offered to them are no more needed. Such places/verses need to be compressed and only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
15. Every chapter/verse of Veda needs to be classified from the flora, fauna and or big trees of a region mentioned in them, if they belong to the 1)Arctic or were 2)written in the "steppes" or in 3)the Indian-sub-Continent or in 4)Australia or in 5) Africa or 6) elsewhere in the word. Right? Please #92
Please
Note: One may like to read post #10 in another sub-forum related here. Please
Regards
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
10. I understand from@Aupmanyav that the hymns of Veda have no chronological order, and (now my opinion) perhaps not even arranged subject-wise or under any system commanded by Brahman and are in a haphazard form.
Why is this such a bad thing when the surahs of the Quran aren't arranged chronologically or by subject-matter? If this is a problem for the Vedas it is also a problem for the Quran.
Why would you expect Hindus to agree that only verses from the Vedas that are in line with the Quran should be retained? You keep acting like the Quran is the obvious default text for all others to judge by. I get that you would feel that way as a Muslim. Non-Muslims see it differently, though.
Indeed we do. But from any 'My way is the only way' POV everyone else is asleep until they awake to the TRUTH. Not that any of this matters because nobody has yet to be convinced we need to shorten the Vedas.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
11.I understand from some posts that there are some "contradictions and differences" in Veda.In such a voluminous scriptures this was inevitable due to the human factor. If friends agree then the ones who are in line with the common sense and or with Quran those would be retained and the others will be compressed but references provided in the footnotes, so that those interested could access them and read them. Post #561, #565 .
That is in case there are some contradictions in the Veda and there are nor reasosn given in the context. Does one believe that there are contradictions in the Veda? or that there are no reasons given in the context? Please
Regards
That is in case there are some contradictions in the Veda and there are nor reasosn given in the context. Does one believe that there are contradictions in the Veda? or that there are no reasons given in the context? Please
Regards
And there we have it folks... outright comparing the Vedas to the Quran as the gold standard for scriptures. No beating around the bush, no tap dancing around landmines. And it only took 34 pages to get here!
No.
You sound surprised? lol
Probably better than being overly quick on the cynical draw at that. But this situation ... well, its about 108% obvious now.I'm slow on the uptake.
Ahh there's the obvious bias creeping through. This is not about compressing the texts it's about making the Vedas hail the Qaran. I have no issue with any Holy Book. But to force another's Holy Book to fall in line with another is wholly disrespectful. Stop this intentional (or even unintentional) destruction of our text please.
Why would any Hindu, whether pre-Vedic, Vedic, post-Vedic, or Arctic-Vedic, use the Quran to judge their own texts by? I fully understand why you would. As a Muslim, you are instructed by the Quran to use it as a standard by which to judge truth and error. Hindus have no such instruction. Furthermore, for all you and I know, if there are corruptions, maybe, just maybe, it is the parts you feel disagree with the Quran that are the original. Maybe the parts that sound more monotheistic are the errors inserted by scribes?
I apologize to the other Hindus here for speaking of corruption in the Vedas. I know of none and do not make the claim that it is corrupted. I only want to point out that even if there were, it could just as easily work against the position of the OP.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
We will loose all the beautiful stories which have entertained people for thousands of years. We want all that in detail.