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Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I apologize to the other Hindus here for speaking of corruption in the Vedas. I know of none and do not make the claim that it is corrupted. I only want to point out that even if there were, it could just as easily work against the position of the OP.
There are more than 1028 such sages for RigVeda. They were from various families (lineages). Sometimes Grandpas, fathers and sons all were seers of Vedic hymns. The RigVedic hymns were written/seen/heard by our sages at different times. In this way the corpus grew. So, a hymn being added later is not really a corruption. A corruption is what was added after the canonization by sage VedaVyasa. But Hindus devised a perfect system to safeguard against that. the words, the sounds, all were meticulously preserved.

"As with the other Vedas, the redacted text has been handed down in several versions, most importantly the Padapatha, in which each word is isolated in pausa* form and is used for just one way of memorization; and the Samhitapatha, which combines words according to the rules of sandhi (the process being described in the Pratisakhya) and is the memorized text used for recitation.

The Padapatha and the Pratisakhya anchor the text's fidelity and meaning, and the fixed text was preserved with unparalleled fidelity for more than a millennium by oral tradition alone. In order to achieve this the oral tradition prescribed very structured enunciation, involving breaking down the Sanskrit compounds into stems and inflections, as well as certain permutations. This interplay with sounds gave rise to a scholarly tradition of morphology and phonetics. The Rigveda was probably not written down until the Gupta period (4th to 6th centuries AD), by which time the Brahmi script had become widespread (the oldest surviving manuscripts are from ~1040 AD, discovered in Nepal). The oral tradition still continues into recent times."
* In linguistics, pausa (Latin for "break", from Greek "παῦσις" pausis "stopping, ceasing") is the hiatus between prosodic units.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda#Transmission
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Veda Scripture- The Compressed One

I wish that ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is compiled which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part of it in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information in this connection, please.

The latest on the blueprint of the above is like this to summarize:

1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept mostly as it is. I understand that it is about 1000 ± pages, not possible to read by a busy person, therefore, it also needs compression as is evident. The elite class of Brahmins wanted to create as many as possible obstacles to keep Veda out of reach of an ordinary man, it is one such obstacle. Rigveda is also to be compressed, therefore, however, references will be provided so that one who wants to go to detailed study of Veda could access them. Right? Please
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primarily derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, It will be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating to that effect.
3.I have read Yajurveda from cover to cover . I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed and only references provided in the original one.
4.We get a clue from post #18 ,#43, in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Veda believers, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Veda, and that is a wrong concept. Right? Please
#42 #49
In terms of the posts mentioned above, one may conclude following reasonable options:
  • One should make the confirmed opinion that Veda people were not a peaceful people. They were most of the time fighting with others and invoking the god/idols for helping in this cause, they needed war spoils for their livelihood and were offering sacrifices only to this end.
  • Rishis never taught such things, they were peaceful, all these verses had been made-up by the narrators/scribes/priests for their own ends.
  • Hence all such verses in all Vedas need to be compressed and only reference provided to historical reason.
Right? Please
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends who ascribe themselves to Vedas help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself. Right? Please
6.We get a clue from post #79 that Veda is not to be taken literal, it is in symbols and metaphors.#80,#5 friend
19460.jpg
@Madhuri Post #4 ,friend
31456.jpg
@ratikala post #15 , friend
499.jpg
@Sunstone post #9
, and friend
53071.jpg
@SomeRandom post #16 describes, "But I tend to interpret things metaphorically rather than most traditional Hindus. But even still how can we possibly fathom the true form? The idols may contain the presence or energy or whatever one wishes to call it of the Nameless formless one, but they are still approximations"
7. We get a clue from post #23 in another thread that there is too much monotony in Rigveda. So for minimizing it only some or more representative passages/verses should go to the compressed Rigveda but their references will be provided as mentioned in point one above. Please
8. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, God and gods are different things.Friend
19460.jpg
@Madhuri Post #87 God is the source of the gods. And I think it says in the text that the Supreme God IS Hiranyagarbha; not that the Supreme God is created from the egg.These parts of Veda must be given preference over anything else #52. Right? Please.

9. Veda was once one book in terms of post #31 , #65 this way it will become one again from the four or many Vedas 105 .
Anybody, please
10. I understand from
11823.jpg
@Aupmanyav that the hymns of Veda have no chronological order, and (now my opinion) perhaps not even arranged subject-wise or under any system commanded by Brahman and are in a haphazard form. I would like some system in their arrangement and will like some suggestions to this effect for the Compressed Veda.
Please
11.I understand from some posts that there are some "contradictions and differences" in Veda.In such a voluminous scriptures this was inevitable due to the human factor. If friends agree then the ones who are in line with the common sense and or with Quran those would be retained and the others will be compressed but references provided in the footnotes, so that those interested could access them and read them. Post #561, #565 .
12. Vedas were revealed on Rishis, and rishis are one's senses and also one's satguru, friend
avatar_male_l.png
@atanu told us in post #28. If he is right, and there is no reason of him being wrong, then everybody having senses could understand and interpret Veda and Veda is for him , Brhamin or Shudra or Daulit or untouchanble or anybody/everybody else in any part of the world or whatever religion. Right? Please

13.We get clue from post #18 from friend
34272.jpg
@Satyamavejayanti , and post #19 from friend
avatar_male_m.png
@HarihOm that there are no myths in the Vedas. Also as per post #23
and post #24 and as per the statement quoted from Wikipedia by friend @Jainarayan which has a sentence that "n popular use, a myth can be a collectively held belief that has no basis in fact ".(please correct me if I am wrong), unless it is allegoric and for this a set principle is laid down in Veda. If not, only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please

continued to the next post
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
continued from the previous post

14. The imperfect Gods mentioned in Veda no more fight, may be they got perfected, or they have killed one another so the verses in which these have been mentioned in Veda and implored for help by the priestly class and the sacrifices offered to them are no more needed. Such places/verses need to be compressed and only some representative ones will be included in the "Compressed Veda" and for others references will be given. Right? Please
15. Every chapter/verse of Veda needs to be classified from the flora, fauna and or big trees of a region mentioned in them, if they belong to the 1)Arctic or were 2)written in the "steppes" or in 3)the Indian-sub-Continent or in 4)Australia or in 5) Africa or 6) elsewhere in the word. Right? Please #92
16. One a "Strong Atheism"+ "Hinduism" has confirmed a "mix" of contents during Post Veda Period. #64 #65 . Right? Please

Note: One may like to read post #10 in another sub-forum related here. Please

Regards
 
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Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
"paarsurrey"

Namaste,

Before you go and try to understand and "compress", the Veda Samhita, can you please establish and provide evidence of your Adhikar (Authority, Competence, qualifications) as per the requirements of Vedanta (the full comprehension of Veda), otherwise you have no Authority no Competence or qualification in taking this task.

Adhikara as per Vedanta (the full comprehension of Veda).

From TattvaBodha

We will explain for those who are endowed with the fourfold qualification (Sadhana
Chatushtaya) the mode of discrimination, which is the means of liberation.

Q) What are the four-fold qualifications?

A ) 1-The capacity to discriminate between the permanent and the impermanent. 2-Dispassion
to the enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions here and hereafter. 3-The group of six
accomplishments beginning with Sama. 4-The yearning for liberation.

Q) What is meant by the discrimination between the Eternal and the ephemeral?

A) Brahman alone is the one Nitya Vastu, the Eternal Factor. Everything else is Anitya i.e.
impermanent. This conviction is the discrimination between the Eternal and the
Ephemeral.

Q) What is dispassion ?

A) The absence of desire for the enjoyment (of the fruits of one’s actions) in this world, as
also in the other world.

Q) What are the accomplishments of Sadhana starting with Sama?

A) They are: Sama, Dama, Uparama, Titiksha, Sraddha and Samadhana.

Q&A) What is Sama? Control or mastery over the mind.

Q&A) What is Dama? Control or mastery over external sense organs.

Q&A) What is Uparama? Strict observance of one’s own Dharmah.

Q&A) What is Titiksha? The endurance of heat and cold, pleasure and pain etc.

Q&A) What is the nature of Sraddha? Trust based on truth in the words of the Guru, and in the Shastra is
Sraddha.

Q&A) What is Samadhana? Single-pointedness of the mind.

Q&A) What is Mumukshutvam? “Let me attain Moksha” (Liberation). This intense yearning
is Mumukshutvam.

These are the four-fold qualifications. Thereafter (i.e. after having acquired these fourfold
qualifications) they become Adhikaris i.e. persons fit for the inquiry into the Truth/Knowledge/Veda ect.


Now please provide your qualification.

Dhanyavad
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Namaste,

Before you go and try to understand and "compress", the Veda Samhita, can you please establish and provide evidence of your Adhikar (Authority, Competence, qualifications) as per the requirements of Vedanta (the full comprehension of Veda), otherwise you have no Authority no Competence or qualification in taking this task.
Adhikara as per Vedanta (the full comprehension of Veda).
From TattvaBodha
We will explain for those who are endowed with the fourfold qualification (Sadhana
Chatushtaya) the mode of discrimination, which is the means of liberation.
Q) What are the four-fold qualifications?
A ) 1-The capacity to discriminate between the permanent and the impermanent. 2-Dispassion
to the enjoyment of the fruits of one's actions here and hereafter. 3-The group of six
accomplishments beginning with Sama. 4-The yearning for liberation.
Q) What is meant by the discrimination between the Eternal and the ephemeral?
A) Brahman alone is the one Nitya Vastu, the Eternal Factor. Everything else is Anitya i.e.
impermanent. This conviction is the discrimination between the Eternal and the
Ephemeral.
Q) What is dispassion ?
A) The absence of desire for the enjoyment (of the fruits of one’s actions) in this world, as
also in the other world.
Q) What are the accomplishments of Sadhana starting with Sama?
A) They are: Sama, Dama, Uparama, Titiksha, Sraddha and Samadhana.
Q&A) What is Sama? Control or mastery over the mind.
Q&A) What is Dama? Control or mastery over external sense organs.
Q&A) What is Uparama? Strict observance of one’s own Dharmah.
Q&A) What is Titiksha? The endurance of heat and cold, pleasure and pain etc.
Q&A) What is the nature of Sraddha? Trust based on truth in the words of the Guru, and in the Shastra is
Sraddha.
Q&A) What is Samadhana? Single-pointedness of the mind.
Q&A) What is Mumukshutvam? “Let me attain Moksha” (Liberation). This intense yearning
is Mumukshutvam.
These are the four-fold qualifications. Thereafter (i.e. after having acquired these fourfold
qualifications) they become Adhikaris i.e. persons fit for the inquiry into the Truth/Knowledge/Veda ect.

Now please provide your qualification.
Dhanyavad

Thanks for putting the questions.
Now, please prove/quote from Veda that these are valid questions and provide/quote reasonable arguments from Veda to the answers to them. Please don't add any non-revealed and non-eternal answer from someone who wrote it in the Post Veda Period. Right? Please

Regards
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks for putting the questions.
Now, please prove/quote from Veda that these are valid questions and provide/quote reasonable arguments from Veda to the answers to them. Please don't add any non-revealed and non-eternal answer from someone who wrote it in the Post Veda Period. Right? Please

Regards

You want someone to validate their questioning technique? How about you?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Thanks for putting the questions.
Now, please prove/quote from Veda that these are valid questions and provide/quote reasonable arguments from Veda to the answers to them. Please don't add any non-revealed and non-eternal answer from someone who wrote it in the Post Veda Period. Right? Please

Regards
Please, @paarsurrey . Enough already with the insistence on quotes from scripture.

Religion is supposed to be way bigger than scripture.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Thanks for putting the questions.
Now, please prove/quote from Veda that these are valid questions and provide/quote reasonable arguments from Veda to the answers to them. Please don't add any non-revealed and non-eternal answer from someone who wrote it in the Post Veda Period. Right? Please

Regards

Namaste,

Sorry, first you must provide your qualifications to even ask about Veda Samhita and before you can delve into any Vedic literature.

If you have none of the listed qualifications your attempt to make any changes to the Veda Samhita is not acceptable nor is it worth while.

Plus I asked first!

Dhanyavad
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
I am an ordinary human being in the street with no claims of any scholarship or piety. Please
Regards

Namaste,

But to be a Rishi and a Adhikari (Authority) in the Veda one must fulfill these and more criteria, the Veda itself asks for more stringent qualifications to be a Rishi (one who has realized the Sanatana Satya or eternal truth) or Shastri (one well versed in the Shastra and texts).

One cannot attempt to change, reduce, compress, compile, translate ect the Samhita just because it seems too big to understand for the lay person, because the samhita is not for the layman and a unqualified person.

For eg: in Rigved 1.164.39 says: The Richa Mantra are "Param Vyam" or contain timeless mantras and they contain entire spectrum of dev-shaktis, it further states that "what Richas alone can do for those who don't understand this immutable phenomena?".

This is like saying "what a flute alone could do for a person who isn't knowledgeable about discipline of music?".

In Rigved 10.71.3 it is advised that "Learned people unravel the intent of noble speech through Yagya. They acquired the knowledge originating in the Antahkaran of Self realized Rishis and disseminated that knowledge worldwide while presenting that as stutis in seven types of chhandas."

Rigved 10.7.5 emphasizes that: very rarely and only the people with stable convictions alone do succeed in correctly understanding the vedvaani (the message of the Veda). Rest of them continue to wander confused in the web of fruitless and flowerless web of words.

The practical qualification also is mentioned in Atharva Veda, for e.g: Atharva 2.30.4, "what you are internally, let that be your expression externally too and what you are externally, become like that from inside!".

The Rigved (5.57.8) itself recognize the Rishis as the great people who heard (Shruti) and who are Seers (Drashta) of the Divine-eternal Truth. That is why the Vedas are known as the shruti and "the embodiment knowledge through direct perception".

No where in the Veda Samhita is it said that only by reading the texts or the Mantras can one attain the "Param Vayom", the supreme understanding.

Our great Rishis (those who have realized the truth) have said to understand the Veda it is not simply the Mantra that one has to understand but also the Chanda, Devta and the Rishi of the Mantras.

So unless you demonstrate your Worthiness in this task of making a concise Samhita, you are doing a fruitless and useless action, and your intentions can be brought into question.

Dhanyavad
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I am an ordinary human being in the street with no claims of any scholarship or piety. Please
Regards
So you admit to having no qualifications whatsoever, not even scholarship? Even the best of scholars make gross mistakes in translation, and get critiqued by other scholars. There is a thing called peer review. Since only someone with a scholarly background of some sort does this stuff with any authority, I guess it means you should stop this effort.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
So you admit to having no qualifications whatsoever, not even scholarship? Even the best of scholars make gross mistakes in translation, and get critiqued by other scholars. There is a thing called peer review. Since only someone with a scholarly background of some sort does this stuff with any authority, I guess it means you should stop this effort.

Being an ordinary human being entitles one to do anything and everything lawful. Right? Please
Regards
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Being an ordinary human being entitles one to do anything and everything lawful. Right?

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth - or write a post - and be proven one.

Or to put it another way, it may be perfectly lawful to jump into an unattended 15 feet deep swimming pool, but it's awfully dumb if you don't know how to swim.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Can an ordinary man rule like a king? Can an ordinary man make arrests? Can an ordinary man captain a ship? Can an ordinary man perform surgery?

No. No. No.

1) You need authority.
2) You need adequate training.

Since you have neither of the above, you are hereby disqualified.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Being an ordinary human being entitles one to do anything and everything lawful. Right? Please
Regards
An ordinary being can do a lot of things. Usually that starts with training though. Anyone can be a teacher but that person must first study not only subjects they wish to teach but learn the various techniques and standards that teaching comes with.
Anyone can become a doctor, but they first must study medicine and human anatomy. Anyone can be a translator but they first must study linguistics.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Being an ordinary human being entitles one to do anything and everything lawful. Right? Please
Regards

Namaste,

It is good that you said "Lawful", as one cannot be unlawfully doing anything, Laws are generally rules, procedures and regulations advised by Authority. This Lawfulness while taking the context of texts of a different religion would be considered as rules, procedures and regulations propounded by the adherents, authority and texts of the said religion, so in this case you must abide by the rules set out by The Vedanta Rishi (Those who are/were Adherents and Authority of Veda) to be entitled to conduct your "compression", lawfully.

More simply: while taking the context of The Veda Samhita, one must abide by the correct procedure and rules advised and set out by those who have Authority in the Subject otherwise you are breaking the rules therefore can be seen as being unlawful.

Explained in a different way: Rules, Regulations, Procedures that are relative to an activity must to be followed if your actions have an effect on the activity in question.

For the Layman: If you don't know the Laws (rules, regulation, procedure) governing the qualifications of those who want to make changes to the Samhita, then in reality you are breaking the rules, and are being unlawful according to the Veda.

Dhanyavad
 
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