Don't try and say your omnimax god has a reason to allow suffering

[Stellify]

Well, if that is how you feel to date from your studies of the bible, than who am I to judge?
After my studies I believe the bible is pretty clear, we are all made in His image, but that is different than saying we are all going to heaven.

I never meant to indicate that we are all going to heaven.
You implied that some of us are not His children.
I thought that all humans are supposed to be His children, regardless of how "misguided" we are (ie: atheists, pagans, etc)
So, I guess, to clarify, I thought we are all His children, but that is different than saying we are all going to heaven.
Or is it your belief that only those of us who go to heaven are considered his children? I'm just curious about what you believe.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I never meant to indicate that we are all going to heaven.
You implied that some of us are not His children.
I thought that all humans are supposed to be His children, regardless of how "misguided" we are (ie: atheists, pagans, etc)
So, I guess, to clarify, I thought we are all His children, but that is different than saying we are all going to heaven.
Or is it your belief that only those of us who go to heaven are considered his children? I'm just curious about what you believe.

Fortunately it is not about what I believe, because that changes all the time as I learn more. I think that goes for all of us ey?
However, what I currently believe the bible teaches is that God's children does not mean everyone.
For example

Ephesian Ch 5
"6": Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
"7": Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
"8": For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Make sense?

 

[Stellify]

Fortunately it is not about what I believe, because that changes all the time as I learn more. I think that goes for all of us ey?
However, what I currently believe the bible teaches is that God's children does not mean everyone.
For example


Make sense?

I think beliefs should always change as we learn more. That's how we grow

Hmmm....I guess I could see how you would take it that way. I think, from what I read just now, that I would interpret it differently: once again, all His children, just some of them are disobedient children and some are good children.
But that's just me And I'm sure you've done much more thorough readings of the Bible than I have.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I think beliefs should always change as we learn more. That's how we grow

Yes these are wise words.

Hmmm....I guess I could see how you would take it that way. I think, from what I read just now, that I would interpret it differently: once again, all His children, just some of them are disobedient children and some are good children.

But that's just me And I'm sure you've done much more thorough readings of the Bible than I have.

Again, to each his own, but I am not sure how else to read verses like the following:

1John ch3
9": Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
"10": In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Yes these are wise words.

Again, to each his own, but I am not sure how else to read verses like the following:

""10": In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. "

Isn't the devil a fallen child of god? If so, wouldn't the children of the devil be god's unfortunate grandchildren?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Isn't the devil a fallen child of god? If so, wouldn't the children of the devil be god's unfortunate grandchildren?

No, the devil is an angel. As such Satan never had a child in the traditional sense. However, since he can influence humans, he can certainly be called the father of a type of children.

So, it is true all humans are created in the image of God, but what they become is something entirely different.

 

[Stellify]

Hmm....that's interesting.
But since everyone commits sin at some point, wouldn't that mean that none of us are His children?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Hmm....that's interesting.
But since everyone commits sin at some point, wouldn't that mean that none of us are His children?

Exactly! Frubals for you...
That is why we have Jesus. He was human and never sinned. He was able to be our payment for this sin. It is as simple as that.
Those that get it, get it.
When the bell rings in your head, you start wanting to learn more about this Jesus, and the study begins.
For those that don't get it, well... it is all quite silly to them.

The next question is, what is the real difference between the one child and the other? Is it their hair or eye color or nationality? No, that would suck in my opinion.
The difference is whether or not God has chosen you. Which you have nothing to do with. If you feel it inside of you, it is something God did and not you or I.

Anyway that is what I believe the bible teaches.

Nice chattin with you

 

[Stellify]

Exactly! Frubals for you...
That is why we have Jesus. He was human and never sinned. He was able to be our payment for this sin. It is as simple as that.
Those that get it, get it.
When the bell rings in your head, you start wanting to learn more about this Jesus, and the study begins.
For those that don't get it, well... it is all quite silly to them.

The next question is, what is the real difference between the one child and the other? Is it their hair or eye color or nationality? No, that would suck in my opinion.
The difference is whether or not God has chosen you. Which you have nothing to do with. If you feel it inside of you, it is something God did and not you or I.

Anyway that is what I believe the bible teaches.

Nice chattin with you

Hmmm....I don't like the idea of God choosing people. I think that ruins the point of free will. But I can at least kind of see what you mean.

I've been around my fair share of Jesus study already Church every day for nine years while I attended a private Episcopalian school, and later, a Catholic University. I still have some issues with the Bible and choose to remain more or less pagan But thank you for explaining your views and showing me those passages. I appreciate it

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Hmmm....I don't like the idea of God choosing people. I think that ruins the point of free will. But I can at least kind of see what you mean.

As a person that is bound only by the bible, I don't have room for free will. It is not something taught in the bible. However, I totally get where your coming from.

I've been around my fair share of Jesus study already Church every day for nine years while I attended a private Episcopalian school, and later, a Catholic University. I still have some issues with the Bible and choose to remain more or less pagan But thank you for explaining your views and showing me those passages. I appreciate it

Your welcome and thank you for listening to my views.

 

[Willamena]

Again, to each his own, but I am not sure how else to read verses like the following:

1John ch3
9": Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
"10": In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

We are "born of God" in the realization of God, and that realization can happen to anyone at any time. When that "birth" happens, one is manifest as a child of God/child of Devil.

Just one way of reading it.

 

[Paraprakrti]

If God is not forced to do it, then it is his choice and is no different than if the other beings whims did not exist.

Uh oh.....problem of evil just undisolved again.

If other beings' whims did not exist, then God would not create. So it is very different.
But your position is that God could have ignored those other beings, but chose to create according to their whims anyway. And somehow you think this makes God the culprit. There really isn't an argument here; Just you insisting that God is the meanie.

My original argument still stands. God is simply supplying what others are asking for. God doesn't have to do it, but that is irrelevant. God is simply and faultlessly permitting free will.

 

[Paraprakrti]

And now show us that you didn't just pull this out of your ---, is this simply your own premise or is there a particular religion that supports this rather foolish premise?

What makes it foolish?

 

[Breathe]

What makes it foolish?

Because he disagrees with it, it must be foolish.

 

[Paraprakrti]

Because he disagrees with it, it must be foolish.

I hope that's not it.

If he thinks it is foolish because he thinks I have concocted the whole thing, then I can certainly clear that up. But if he thinks it is foolish for some other reason, then I want to address that first.

 

[Breathe]

I hope that's not it.

If he thinks it is foolish because he thinks I have concocted the whole thing, then I can certainly clear that up. But if he thinks it is foolish for some other reason, then I want to address that first.

Me too. Here's to hoping! )(

 

[Beaudreaux]

Chocolate ice creams tastes better than vanilla.

Oranges are also WAY better than apples. They're juicy, citrusy. Delicious!

 

[Beaudreaux]

Do you have any idea WHY humans feel pain?

So that we may avoid things that cause us harm and know when we've been injured. You know....because we live in a world where things cause us harm and injure us...

 

[Beaudreaux]

What you don't get is that this suffering is only bad for those that are not his Children. It is complete elation for those that are his Children.

So, the best thing we can do for God's children is to strive to make them suffer, right?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So, the best thing we can do for God's children is to strive to make them suffer, right?

You are still confused. "WE" don't do anything accept teach the truth. It is God that chooses to work in our lives as He sees fit.
Just as you would for your children.