Don't try and say your omnimax god has a reason to allow suffering

[McBell]

And disease is mostly caused by bacteria trying to survive. Why should God give us special consideration over them?

This actually hurts your argument.

 

[Riverwolf]

Why would an all-loving, all-powerful god put us in a world where we need to inflict suffering on others in order to survive?

Now THAT is a good question.

Let's see...

It is my belief that God didn't "put" us anywhere; God is One with Us and All.

 

[Riverwolf]

This actually hurts your argument.

Please explain.

 

[.lava]

The difference is though, Lava, that Water is just an element. However medical science is Human knowledge of practises, not only that but the people who heal you are the actual Humans performing the operations, but only using medical science.

In that sense I think it's safe to assume that God doesn't intend for Humans to heal others, because the Human doing the healing (and the Humans who contributed to the knowledge of medical science) arn't mere "puppets" that obey God and perform medical ops - instead, they're Humans with their own free will.

you are talking about knowledge. during the simpliest operation there might be complications and person might die unexpectedly. even though knowledge was sufficient enough to save 'the body'...even if knowledge was completed, sometimes is not enough to heal.




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[Amill]

One could say that without pain and suffering there is little value or meaning in happiness and pleasure. But with the way life has developed here on Earth, suffering is inevitable. I have more problems with the people who claim to have been healed by god or by miracles. If there is not anyone helping the thousands of young kids that starve to death every day, I really doubt that a god is helping anyone at all and I think it's arrogant to claim so.

Fact of the matter is, life wouldn't be the way it is if there was no suffering. The avoidance of pain and suffering is what drives a lot of the things we do, and is a reason we exist.

 

[Aquitaine]

you are talking about knowledge. during the simpliest operation there might be complications and person might die unexpectedly. even though knowledge was sufficient enough to save 'the body'...even if knowledge was completed, sometimes is not enough to heal.

Well in that case, wouldn't saying that actually damage your argument, because you believe in an omni-max all-loving God? Who, despite having the knowledge be correct, and the Doctor's skills be correct, and the operation be correct, still thought it was neccessary to perform an anti-miracle and kill off the patient, completely to everybodies suprise, and had the patient had lived, no one would've been the least bit suspicious - like (OMG how on Earth did he survive???!!) etc?

 

[Aquitaine]

Riverwolf, I've noticed you're still "Considernig" Shaivism

How long have you been on-the-fence with it, if you don't mind me askin'?

 

[.lava]

Well in that case, wouldn't saying that actually damage your argument, because you believe in an omni-max all-loving God? Who, despite having the knowledge be correct, and the Doctor's skills be correct, and the operation be correct, still thought it was neccessary to perform an anti-miracle and kill off the patient, completely to everybodies suprise, and had the patient had lived, no one would've been the least bit suspicious - like (OMG how on Earth did he survive???!!) etc?

and we also see people are getting healed even though there is no actual cure for the disease yet...everything existed with its exact opposite.

btw we consider death to be destiny. when one's time is up, no knowledge could keep him alive. therefor i would not blame any doctor for deaths. it works other way around too. if your time is not up yet, if you're not destined to die, then there is no disease to kill you. but you might suffer and we are talking about 'suffering', not death itself.




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[9-10ths_Penguin]

IMO medical science could only be proxy. just a tool, not the actual reason why you get healed. because medical science could not save or heal you without permission of God.

It seems an odd coincidence that God would suddenly decide to give permission to alleviate the suffering associated with polio right when humanity came up with a treatment.

And smallpox.

And the plague.

And bacterial infections.

And diabetes.

Strange that He would keep these in his repertoire of suffering (which is a good thing when it's inflicted by God, right?) for millions of years, and then just give up on them all of a sudden.

 

[.lava]

It seems an odd coincidence that God would suddenly decide to give permission to alleviate the suffering associated with polio right when humanity came up with a treatment.

And smallpox.

And the plague.

And bacterial infections.

And diabetes.

Strange that He would keep these in his repertoire of suffering (which is a good thing when it's inflicted by God, right?) for millions of years, and then just give up on them all of a sudden.

there are only two things that can't be cured. death and getting old. rest of the stuff could be cured.

are you saying nobody is dying because of polio, plague...etc.?





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[McBell]

 

[Riverwolf]

Is that for me or lava?

 

[Aquitaine]

If suffering is so essential for us to "learn", then why're we permitted things like painkillers and medical treatments, shelters etc etc?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

You guys are just dancing around the issue.

What is suffering? Like you don't know? You think that sloppy deliberately obtuse question warrants an answer?

The Inconsistent Tirade has bothered theist since they invented the 1st loving god. It has never been solved for the good and sufficient reason it can't be. The very best you mythologists can come with is that a all-knowing god just "knows better" and whatever suffering and needless pain and loss we experience is REALLY good for us. We just are too dumb to know it.:cover:

And if you are persuaded by that argument look me up. I've some ocean front property in Florida. Real cheap.

 

[.lava]

Is that for me or lava?

i think he is out of popcorns.





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[Riverwolf]

You guys are just dancing around the issue.

What is suffering? Like you don't know? You think that sloppy deliberately obtuse question warrants an answer?

The Inconsistent Tirade has bothered theist since they invented the 1st loving god. It has never been solved for the good and sufficient reason it can't be. The very best you mythologists can come with is that a all-knowing god just "knows better" and whatever suffering and needless pain and loss we experience is REALLY good for us. We just are too dumb to know it.:cover:

And if you are persuaded by that argument look me up. I've some ocean front property in Florida. Real cheap.

I know what suffering is. I'm just making sure we're in agreement, because suffering as I define it can be conquered by anybody.

 

[Riverwolf]

i think he is out of popcorns.
.

I did tell him to make sure he had a candy bar...

 

[Aquitaine]

I know what suffering is. I'm just making sure we're in agreement, because suffering as I define it can be conquered by anybody.

You're right about us needing an agreement on the definitions, because I myself veiw "suffering" mainly as things that we cannot conquer. Whereas "pain" in many forms, can be conquered in my opinion.

 

[Aquitaine]

In my total honest opinion, I do not believe in anything omni-max, even an omni-max God. I veiw omni-max as impossible, because it's own attributes would contradict itself (all-mercifull, all-just etc), a triangle, yet a square at the same time.

I'm just here to debate with Monotheists and othe religious people for the Hell of it

No pun intended

 

[Riverwolf]

In my total honest opinion, I do not believe in anything omni-max, even an omni-max God. I veiw omni-max as impossible, because it's own attributes would contradict itself (all-mercifull, all-just etc), a triangle, yet a square at the same time.

I'm just here to debate with Monotheists and othe religious people for the Hell of it

No pun intended

Debating is a great opportunity to learn. That's what I use it for. (Not to mention it is fun. ^_^)