Don't try and say your omnimax god has a reason to allow suffering

[Aquitaine]

Debating is a great opportunity to learn. That's what I use it for. (Not to mention it is fun. ^_^)

Exactly!

However, I really can't debate with you personally on this subject, since you're not a Monotheist and you don't belief in an omni-max God....... so I guess I'll just stand by and watch you and Mestemia/Carl get at it

 

[Riverwolf]

Exactly!

However, I really can't debate with you personally on this subject, since you're not a Monotheist and you don't belief in an omni-max God....... so I guess I'll just stand by and watch you and Mestemia/Carl get at it

Okay. Enjoy! ^_^ (And make sure you have plenty of popcorn.)

 

[OmarKhayyam]

I know what suffering is. I'm just making sure we're in agreement, because suffering as I define it can be conquered by anybody.

BS. Piled high. Like a infant born with aids can "conquer" his pain.

But even if that nonsense WERE true. So What?

WHY need to "conquer" At all! Ever! Pain or anything else. Why does loving benevolent fairy god-Father allow ANY of it?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Why should God remove suffering when we have the ability to do so and yet as an entire species make no effort to do so?

Oh...my...GOD! Will people please stop with this ridiculous argument!!! WHY SHOULD GOD REMOVE SUFFERING?!?!?!?!??! Really?!?!?!? Humans are bad and so somehow, some way, through some kind of twisted backward logic, that means that God does not have to be good? "Why should an all-loving God have to be good?"

How about because removing suffering is a good thing? How about because human beings who remove suffering are doing a good thing? How about because even you yourself claim that humans should remove suffering because it is good to do so?

Honestly, how can anyone trot out this ludicrous excuse for an argument anymore?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Let's talk about the terms you've provided.

Pain is just the body's way of letting you know there's something wrong, so you can get help. What's wrong with that?

Hmmmm. I wonder why so many doctors try to reduce pain in their patients. If someone has crippling arthritis, why offer them treatment to reduce the pain?

Loss is inevitable, so it's really pointless to worry about it. (So why do we?)

Yeah...exactly who do you believe is repsonsible for making loss inevitable?

You cannot defend an omnimax God by saying "well, that's just the way the world is". If there is an omnimax God, he made the world this way.

 

[Beaudreaux]

, if one expects God to heal him without using any worldly tool such as medicines, then it is like expecting God to perform miracles.

Right! It's not like God can perform miracles. Healing the sick without medicine would be like parting a sea, or making food multiply, or changing water to wine, or walking on water, or raising someone from the dead or....well, or healing the sick without medicine! Who in the world would think that almighty God could do these kinds of things?

 

[Beaudreaux]

However, I think it would be for the best if we all could clarify our definitions of words like "suffering", and even "pain", because there's just so many different types, some usefull - some not.

If there is any at all that is not useful, then I think we've done all we need to do there.

 

[Beaudreaux]

And disease is mostly caused by bacteria trying to survive. Why should God give us special consideration over them?

Because he's supposed to be good.

 

[Riverwolf]

BS. Piled high. Like a infant born with aids can "conquer" his pain.

You're not born with purpose; you develop it.

A person born with aids doesn't have to suffer because of it. He or she can accept it and enjoy what little time on earth he or she has.

Conquering pain doesn't mean getting rid of it. It means not being affected by it.

But even if that nonsense WERE true. So What?

WHY need to "conquer" At all! Ever! Pain or anything else. Why does loving benevolent fairy god-Father allow ANY of it?

What have we done to deserve not having it?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Now THAT is a good question.

Let's see...

It is my belief that God didn't "put" us anywhere; God is One with Us and All.

Really? Well, i just took a great big piece of God a moment ago that almost clogged my toilet. Oh, sorry. My porcelain shaped piece of God that I defacate into.

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh...my...GOD! Will people please stop with this ridiculous argument!!! WHY SHOULD GOD REMOVE SUFFERING?!?!?!?!??! Really?!?!?!? Humans are bad and so somehow, some way, through some kind of twisted backward logic, that means that God does not have to be good? "Why should an all-loving God have to be good?"

How about because removing suffering is a good thing? How about because human beings who remove suffering are doing a good thing? How about because even you yourself claim that humans should remove suffering because it is good to do so?

Honestly, how can anyone trot out this ludicrous excuse for an argument anymore?

Humans aren't "bad."

However, much of human suffering is our own fault; therefore it is our responsibility to mend it.

Besides, if God just simply removed suffering from the world, what then? Not to mention, how would he do so, and would the method of doing so be "good?"

 

[Beaudreaux]

I know what suffering is. I'm just making sure we're in agreement, because suffering as I define it can be conquered by anybody.

REALLY? How do you define suffering then?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Besides, if God just simply removed suffering from the world, what then? Not to mention, how would he do so, and would the method of doing so be "good?"

An omnimax God can.....do.....ANYthing.

 

[Riverwolf]

Hmmmm. I wonder why so many doctors try to reduce pain in their patients. If someone has crippling arthritis, why offer them treatment to reduce the pain?

Mercy. Not to mention physical pain can often be so great as to be hindering. (Not to mention the fact that to most, time goes by very slowly when they're in pain.)

Yeah...exactly who do you believe is repsonsible for making loss inevitable?

Reality.

You cannot defend an omnimax God by saying "well, that's just the way the world is". If there is an omnimax God, he made the world this way.

Only if he created it at some beginning in the first place and is separate from it completely, which I don't believe.

 

[Aquitaine]

You cannot defend an omnimax God by saying "well, that's just the way the world is". If there is an omnimax God, he made the world this way.

A good point, however (correct me if I'm wrong, Riverwolf), but Riverwolf doesn't actually believe in an omni-max God, his is one that differs from the omni-max God concept put forward in Monotheisms. Hence why I stopped debating with him lol. I think Riverwolf should explain the basics of his own God concept first.

Because you can ask why does God let it all happen if he's the Creator,
and Riverwolf can say that he doesn't believe that God is the Creator/omni-max etc etc.

 

[Riverwolf]

Because he's supposed to be good.

It's good to play favorites? I always believed that that was bad.

 

[Riverwolf]

Really? Well, i just took a great big piece of God a moment ago that almost clogged my toilet. Oh, sorry. My porcelain shaped piece of God that I defacate into.

If you're trying to offend me, it's not going to work, because what you've just said falls completely within my beliefs; feces are part of God, as are toilets.

 

[Riverwolf]

An omnimax God can.....do.....ANYthing.

A sage once said that there is, in fact, one thing God cannot do.

God cannot separate himself from us.

 

[Beaudreaux]

If you're trying to offend me, it's not going to work, because what you've just said falls completely within my beliefs; feces are part of God, as are toilets.

Not trying to offend. Was making a joke, though I was probably more than a little unfair there. While it seems counterintuitive, if God is "everything" then there's really not much to Him. He can have no seperate intentionality or consciousness.

 

[Aquitaine]

Also, Riverwolf.

If God is part of us, and part of life, and reality, then let's say we abolish disease, and kill the bacteria - would we really be killing the bacteria, since we're all connected and we're all dependent on one-another right? Sure the bacteria that was killed would just be "reborn" as something else that is connected to us?

By the way, if I sound lame then don't worry - 'm really just trying to understand your own beliefs in this matter lol.