Double-blind Prayer Efficacy Test -- Really?

[Sheldon]

Gosh!
Gosh!
Smart time to withdraw, I agree.

I suspect this rebuke will result in censure, and yet another critic ending up off @sojourner's Christmas card list.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see people on video declaring you can be anything you want to be. In Mike Walsh's What Is A Woman documentary there are prominent trans people celebrating when this bearded father of four asks can he be a woman too. Just love it. And all those kids on 'puberty blockers' ? They will be the next generation's tragedy - and people will hate 'government' for allowing it. And removing the breasts of pubescent girls. Remember that guy in England jailed for rape, and declared he was a woman? Well they put him in a women's jail where he raped a few more women. And that issue about Muslims raping 1200 kids in Rotherham, but they allowed it because it was their custom?

We had this in Australia 20 years back. A girl shot to fame in Victoria by 'demanding' she participate in men's bowls. There was men's bowls, women's bowls and mixed bowls. She was a feminist hero - and not a single person asked the obvious questions, like can men participate in women's bowls? Why can't she just participate in mixed bowls? Emperors new clothes stuff - and it's a lot madder now in 2022 with the whole question of men and women tossed out the window.

Videos are not evidence. There are peer reviewed papers on this topic. That some people abuse that concept is not a refutation. You are now subjecting yourself to biased confirmation bias. If you like I could provide some peer reviewed works for you or you could try to find some for yourself. I don't mind politely asked honest questions. But I do not like claims that people refuse to support properly as you have made.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please don't be arrogant.

Wait . . . Why didn't you say the same to the person that he responded to?

"I am an expert in the field and refuse to support my claims you just have to believe me" is the ultimate in arrogance. Please note that I just offered to support my claims if you asked for the support. You probably already know that the support exists which is why you never asked for proper support and preferred biased worthless sources instead.

If one claims to be an expert in a field then supporting one's claims should be very very easy. If one refuses to do so then that person's claimed expertise appears to be rather questionable.

 

[PruePhillip]

Pinker fact checks things before writing his book, your posts here suggest you do not. His claims about reduced rates of violence are well supported, and this is despite two catastrophic world wars being taken into account.

Yes, reduced violence. But there's 2,300,000 people in jail, about 4,000,000 people in police and security and about 100,000,000 security cameras in America.
Violence is down. However, it's now up again, despite these figures.
This is the new post-religious society. Stands to reason, you taught people the bible and now you teach them the centrality of self. What could go wrong?

 

[blü 2]

Please don't be arrogant.

Promise!

 

[PruePhillip]

Videos are not evidence. There are peer reviewed papers on this topic. That some people abuse that concept is not a refutation. You are now subjecting yourself to biased confirmation bias. If you like I could provide some peer reviewed works for you or you could try to find some for yourself. I don't mind politely asked honest questions. But I do not like claims that people refuse to support properly as you have made.

I can't quote the feminist bowler hero, it was a newspaper thing. But Walsh's What Is A Woman interviewed some of the luminaries of the trans movement. Anyhow, if guys can participate in women's events, and use women's dressing rooms and toilets I am ok with that.

 

[Sheldon]

I see people on video declaring you can be anything you want to be. In Mike Walsh's What Is A Woman documentary there are prominent trans people celebrating when this bearded father of four asks can he be a woman too. Just love it.

Why would you even care?

And all those kids on 'puberty blockers' ? They will be the next generation's tragedy - and people will hate 'government' for allowing it. And removing the breasts of pubescent girls.

This is a contentious issue, but one should bear in mind that many children commit suicide every year as a result of gender dysphoria. You seem only able to see one blinkered side of this debate. I also don't believe your primary motive is people's wellbeing here, as much as it is blind adherence to the mores of archaic superstition.

Remember that guy in England jailed for rape, and declared he was a woman? Well they put him in a women's jail where he raped a few more women.

A terrible mistake, but nothing to do with the issues or struggles for equality of most trans people obviously, just a negative stereotype you have latched onto to peddle bigotry.

And that issue about Muslims raping 1200 kids in Rotherham, but they allowed it because it was their custom?

That is utter garbage, there was a systematic failure to protect these young girls and women to be sure, but none of the failures had anything to do with your asinine claim. Certainly important lessons ought to be learned, but everyone of them was charged, convicted and rightly given lengthy jail terms, and based on existing laws. Most Muslims in the UK manage not to rape people, and I don't see you citing the many many rapes by Christian men as an example of the depraved nature of Christianity, I wonder why that is? Bias much...

We had this in Australia 20 years back. A girl shot to fame in Victoria by 'demanding' she participate in men's bowls. There was men's bowls, women's bowls and mixed bowls. She was a feminist hero - and not a single person asked the obvious questions, like can men participate in women's bowls? Why can't she just participate in mixed bowls?

Oh the horror...how will the bowls community ever recover?

Emperors new clothes stuff - and it's a lot madder now in 2022 with the whole question of men and women tossed out the window.

Nope, there are some areas where people's safety will have to be put ahead of the rights of trans people in my opinion, and it's a learning curve. the histrionics of this wo is me, the end of the world is nigh act is pretty funny though.

Is this a world record for negative stereotyping? I'm also failing to see what any of that has to do with the research that tested the efficacy of intercessory prayer.

 

[blü 2]

I suspect this rebuke will result in censure, and yet another critic ending up off @sojourner's Christmas card list.

Into each rain some life must fall ...

 

[Polymath257]

Not always. Most counselors don’t engage with the spiritual aspect of the human experience.

Most counselors will deal with issues of feeling connected or disconnected, of goals and how to achieve them, of relationships and how to work with them, etc.

Exactly what 'spiritual' things do they not address? Communication with an invisible friend?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can't quote the feminist bowler hero, it was a newspaper thing. But Walsh's What Is A Woman interviewed some of the luminaries of the trans movement. Anyhow, if guys can participate in women's events, and use women's dressing rooms and toilets I am ok with that.

There are limitations on transwomen participating in sports. And some sports may never have fair results if one allows transsexuals to participate. The current IOC requirement is of at least two years on hormone blocking drugs. That appears to work for track and field, it does not appear to work in combat sports. That only makes sense. Different sports utilize mass and muscles differently so making it fair in one sport does not automatically make competition fair in all sports. But relying on sports is a nit pick. Bathrooms should not make any difference. In women's restrooms stalls all have doors. There is no loss of privacy. Trans people do not use bathrooms to hit on others. For someone that is normally not biased against various groups I am a bit shocked by your reaction to people that are trans.

 

[Sheldon]

it comes down to belief and inner perspective, not outward, objective evidence.

Ain't that always the way...

 

[Sheldon]

Nor are they not-so, just because you kids don’t want to do your homework. I’ve spent the last twenty years exegeting Biblical texts; it’s my profession. I’m not going to waste my time going through all that just for a meaningless Internet forum. I’ve nothing to prove to you. Do your own homework on the subject. But I CAN say authoritatively two things: 1) taking a cursory look at translations does no good. 2) Seeing that’s the route you’ve chosen, your “conclusion” means diddly.

Generally speaking one does one's own research for one's claims and arguments in a debate, and doesn't insist the opposing views do the heavy lifting for you.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, reduced violence. But there's 2,300,000 people in jail, about 4,000,000 people in police and security and about 100,000,000 security cameras in America.
Violence is down. However, it's now up again, despite these figures.
This is the new post-religious society. Stands to reason, you taught people the bible and now you teach them the centrality of self. What could go wrong?

The increase in violence over the last couple of years doesn't even come close to matching the levels 50 years ago.

Yes, America has a massive incarceration rate, but we still have many people saying we need to put *more* people behind bars. And we seem to have no concept that rehabilitation is possible or necessary, or that help transitioning out of prison might be a good thing.

 

[Sheldon]

Ah, the inevitable "Do your own homework" when one demands that a person supports his own claims If your claim about exegeting the Bible for years is true then it should be child's play for you to refute his claims. "Because I said so" has no authority in an argument nor are supposed degrees that one claims, but will not demonstrate.

When it comes to physics claims I trust @Polymath257 because he can support his claims. When it comes to other sciences and the people that have expertise in them I also trust their claims because they have shown that they can do chemistry, or biology, or whatever skill that they claim to have a degree in. Getting angry when one's supposed expertise is challenged is nothing to ever get mad at on the internet. Anyone can claim to have a degree. Demonstrating that one earned it is another matter.

This reminds me of a joke:

Guy 1 - Oh I got my PhD online from Columbia.

Guy 2 - I didn't think Columbia did online doctorates?

Guy 1 Sorry I meant Colombia, the country, not the university.

 

[Sheldon]

blü 2 said: ↑
Gosh!
Gosh!
Smart time to withdraw, I agree.

Please don't be arrogant.

Actually I though the post he was responding to was the one making the arrogant claims, and his response was pretty funny, kudos for that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This reminds me of a joke:

Guy 1 - Oh I got my PhD online from Columbia.

Guy 2 - I didn't think Columbia did online doctorates?

Guy 1 Sorry I meant Colombia, the country, not the university.

Or if you do not want to change the spelling:

Columbia Records

 

[KWED]

The metric of social capital, moral foundations, intact family life, number of children, number of old people not shoved into old age homes and forgotten, amount of drugs in our sewrage system, political cohesion with centrist governments, number of police and security personnel per head of population, crime rates, gun deaths etc..

So basically, your idea of an ideal society is a return to Victorian values, repression of individualism, etc.

Have you heard of the gender identity for children who think they are animals and demand not transexual toilet rights but litter trays in the class room?

No. If it is even a thing, then is is such an outlier as to be statistically irrelevant. You may as well point to religious terrorists and say "look, that's what the world will be like under a god-fearing society!!"

Our institutions are helpless to this thing now.

I don't think "our institutions" (whatever that is) are trying to prevent whatever mad fantasy it is you have created.

The people who had slaves for 100,000 years must be rolling in their graves laughing at us.

So you think that slavery is more morally acceptable and socially beneficial than tolerance of LGBTQ+.
Says a lot about your own "morals", with all due respect.

 

[Sheldon]

Yes, reduced violence. But there's 2,300,000 people in jail, about 4,000,000 people in police and security and about 100,000,000 security cameras in America.

Pinker's assertions are well supported, his book very well researched. Though the US would do well to look closely at countries that focus on rehabilitation and reducing recidivism, as could the UK come to that.

Violence is down. However, it's now up again, despite these figures.

Nope, that's just your unevidenced subjective opinion, and Pinker's book is very well researched, again he carefully fact checks his work, your posts suggest you don't.

This is the new post-religious society.

In the US, you're kidding?

 

[KWED]

True.
And people in these theocratic style cultures want to emmigrate to Western societies, and bring their culture and religion with them.
Get enough of them, ie Islam in Europe, and you overthrow the host nation.
So secular Western societies are the go-to places for immigrants, with immigrants wanting to have it both ways.

So you agree that secular, liberal democracy is a better social system than your conservative religiosity.

I read the percentage of Americans who have had mental issues in their life times is 51%. In Mexico it's half that. Why?

But the US is probably the most religious of the developed nations.

Because America has suffered social and moral breakdowns.

Has it? In what way?

An article last week mentioned the huge number of guns in the Phillipines, but few mass killings. Why?

The Philippines has one of the highest rates of gun deaths in the world.

Because The Phillipines has good social cohesion

What is "social cohesion"?

and this thing called 'shame' which is missing in the West - shame you bring to your name and your family.

The top 10 countries in the social capital rankings are all in Northern Europe. 14 of the next 20 are in "the west".
This is just another of your fantasies, isn't it?

(Philippines is 103rd out of 180, below every "western" nation - just in case you were wondering)

 

[KWED]

No idea what this means sorry, helpless to do what, in regards to what exactly, and this has what to do with my post?

I think they were saying that slavery is more morally acceptable than promoting LGBTQ+ rights.