Double Minded Atheist

[Willamena]

It is of course possible that the old Greek first had the word "agnostos" and then invented the word "gnosis" just to "compliment" the word "agnostos". Where did you get that from? Oh, I found a different source.
"from Greek agnostos "unknown, unknowable," from a- "not" + gnostos "(to be) known" (see gnostic)."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=agnostic

I'm not talking about words.

 

[TruthEnder]

Now that we have established that Christians are atheists....

Except that I clearly, in the same post, stated that atheism is a lack of belief. But, hey, what do I care if Christians claim to be atheists now? They are willing to play ball.

the only criteria to being an atheist is lack of belief in any deity.
Do you know of a person who claims the non-existence of god who believes in god?

OMG, you are responding to where I just said atheism is a lack of belief by asking me if someone who claims the non-existence of a god can believein a god.

Atheism is an umbrella term that describes different types of non-believers.
Some of those non believers claim god does not exist.
Some of those non believers do not claim god does not exist.
Atheist describes the non believer part.

So I fail to understand how it is such a difficult concept.

You haven't given me sufficient reason to accept that your claims have any value. I don't believe they are valuable. I don't believe that they are not valuable. You could say I'm agnostic about the whole thing.

I apologize for not fitting neatly into your false dichotomy.

It's not a false dichotomy. Agnosticism works as a position. But for all practical purposes, you are not agnostic.

My position is I do not know.
Sorry if that does not fit into your false dichotomy.

A position denotes a proposition. A proposition proposes or denies something.

Still not sure what false dichotomy you are speaking of. You're just making stuff up now.

 

[TruthEnder]

I'm not talking about words.

Did you know that Jesus is the Word? Also, have you heard the bird is the Word?

Jesus is a bird.

 

[Desert Snake]

It is of course possible that the old Greek first had the word "agnostos" and then invented the word "gnosis" just to "compliment" the word "agnostos". Where did you get that from? Oh, I found a different source.
"from Greek agnostos "unknown, unknowable," from a- "not" + gnostos "(to be) known" (see gnostic)."
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=agnostic

The labels & words used, are meant to convey a position. If ones claims to be a 'gnostic theist', or a 'gnostic atheist', it is still merely stating their belief. Ie, they 'believe' that they are gnostic theists,/have knowledge that Deity exists,, or they 'believe', that they are gnostic atheists./have knowledge that Deity does not exist. Whether they do or do not actually 'know' that, is arbitrary to the word used in that context.
Again, that is why 'belief', is used whether one considers it ''gnostic'' belief, or whatever. It doesn't matter, it's still a ''belief''.

 

[ukok102nak]

~:> sometimes me also could not understand this but when i experienced it in real life and not just by thinking of it then it pop up like coming out of nowhere
where the non existence and existing things become a reality
as it is not in our own will that all of this
is happened in the first place

think about it
the Magnetic lines of force have a number of important properties, which include:

• They seek the path of least resistance between opposite magnetic poles. ...
• They never cross one another.
• They all have the same strength.

as they say
when theres a presence of the same strength
the same weakness is also present
i supposed with this philosopical view that weve heared from someone before
we hope we could agree unto this thing whithout offending someone here


:ty:



godbless
unto all less

Something I don't understand is why you're posting a quote that mirrors my endeavor so that you can leverage the argument that weak atheism is... some sort of philosophical position?

 

[ukok102nak]

Did you know that Jesus is the Word? Also, have you heard the bird is the Word?

Jesus is a bird.

actually christjesus
is also a worm
as it is written carefully check
every detail on it
and kindly correct us if we are wrong
:read:
Psalms 22:6
But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[McBell]

You could say I'm agnostic about the whole thing.

Herein lies the problem.

Oh well, you can lead a horse to water.....

 

[ukok102nak]

Something I don't understand is why you're posting a quote that mirrors my endeavor so that you can leverage the argument that weak atheism is... some sort of philosophical position?

by the way
this is the most
Something I don't really understand

http://freedomsfinalstand.com/isis-fighter-raping-little-girl-tells-her-that-rape-is-an-act-of-worship-that-draws-muslim-men-closer-to-allah/#
Attachments

Screenshot_2016-08-28-17-57-44.png (539.03 KB, 1080x1920 - viewed 4 times.)

Screenshot_2016-08-28-17-57-30.png (888.94 KB, 1080x1920

. ... could you have some thought
why something like this is supposed to happened (this is not a offtopic situation cuz this is the one of many reason why some people called those
isis the people whithout god
and some people thought that atheists and agnostics also have a common denominator

i say never an atheist nor an agnostic
act the same way as
those
isis who are more animal like behavior
rather than having a human mind who is thinking respectfully unto what is fair and what could expand the knowledge
so that one may explore the very essence of life in good faith

also
just askin ... .


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[TruthEnder]

Herein lies the problem.

Oh well, you can lead a horse to water.....

Predictable. Too bad you don't have a horse to lead. Let's discuss why the primacy of atheism is important, as opposed to agnostic atheism.

 

[ukok102nak]

there's no truth to be ended from that point of view
becaused even if someone who owns a horse
it couldnt lead a horse to water
if its a child is the one who would lead it
and
especially to own that thing inside of her thought

even a child of five year could say this
in its unpredictable state


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

Something I don't understand is why you're posting a quote that mirrors my endeavor so that you can leverage the argument that weak atheism is... some sort of philosophical position?

by the way
this is the most
Something I don't really understand

http://freedomsfinalstand.com/isis-fighter-raping-little-girl-tells-her-that-rape-is-an-act-of-worship-that-draws-muslim-men-closer-to-allah/#
Attachments

Screenshot_2016-08-28-17-57-44.png (539.03 KB, 1080x1920 - viewed 4 times.)

Screenshot_2016-08-28-17-57-30.png (888.94 KB, 1080x1920

. ... could you have some thought
why something like this is supposed to happened (this is not a offtopic situation cuz this is the one of many reason why some people called those
isis the people whithout god
and some people thought that atheists and agnostics also have a common denominator

i say never an atheist nor an agnostic
act the same way as
those
isis who are more animal like behavior
rather than having a human mind who is thinking respectfully unto what is fair and what could expand the knowledge
so that one may explore the very essence of life in good faith

also
just askin ... .


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[ukok102nak]

by the way
are we not here to say somethin about
A DOUBLE MINDED ATHEIST
AND NOT TO
discuss why the primacy of atheism is important, as opposed to agnostic atheism.

as they say
this is somekind of a very predictable thought
for someone who thought the non existence of gods

. ... that's why
we are askin it first and
not enforcing our own thoughts regarding unto what the OP SAYS

just for a clarification if we may say so
and again
hope we dont offended anyone here ... .


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[Acim]

There are three assumptions there, none of which can be substantiated or tested. Maya/illusion, higher self, God.
Or we have the single assumption that we are just intelligent apes.

Occams Razor?

I agree that as long as we are sleeping, denying and/or disbelieving, we cannot objectively substantiate the dream. We can be told about it (before awakening) and proceed to undo that which is blocking awareness. Again, all found within.

Doesn't help the other side of the equation that there is literally no way to (reasonably) substantiate the existence of the alternate worldview (really view of own self), in a truly objective way. Need assumptions to make that rationale work. Both views rest on a fundamental faith. I find what each leads to is discernible, rather immediately. Self evident really.

Occam's Razor suggests perception of separation is illusion, or projection of the mind. And Knowledge (of God, actual being) is found within, not without. And the past is unreal. IOW, the simplest explanation for how this world got started (and is maintained) isn't found in creationism or evolution, but in Knowledge of Self.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I agree that as long as we are sleeping, denying and/or disbelieving, we cannot objectively substantiate the dream. We can be told about it (before awakening) and proceed to undo that which is blocking awareness. Again, all found within.

I don't see how filling one's mind with a load of religious beliefs is conducive to awakening. It looks like a hindrance to me.

 

[ArtieE]

The labels & words used, are meant to convey a position. If ones claims to be a 'gnostic theist', or a 'gnostic atheist', it is still merely stating their belief. Ie, they 'believe' that they are gnostic.

If you say you're a "gnostic theist" you say "I know God exists" you don't say "I believe God exists" or "I believe I know God exists."

 

[Acim]

I don't see how filling one's mind with a load of religious beliefs is conducive to awakening. It looks like a hindrance to me.

I'd go with loading up on spiritual knowledge. Loading up on worldly knowledge strikes me as temporal, though at least a little interesting. I'm glad I can do both.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'd go with loading up on spiritual knowledge. Loading up on worldly knowledge strikes me as temporal, though at least a little interesting. I'm glad I can do both.

"Spiritual knowledge"? It's good to be familiar with different religious beliefs and practices, but that's different to taking on beliefs and attaching to them.

The problem with beliefs is that they warp perception and lead to confirmation bias.

 

[Desert Snake]

If you say you're a "gnostic theist" you say "I know God exists" you don't say "I believe God exists" or "I believe I know God exists."

It doesn't matter. the ''gnostic'' part of that label, doesn't convey anything more than their belief. /their belief that they 'know' that god exists. There's no point in using that label/phraseology, unless the person is hence going to explain why they think they 'know', that god exists. What 'belief' conveys is a surety of the position, thus a more apt way to describe it, /since it isn't arbitrary, or multi-meaning. //'gnostic' conclusion can be arrived from anything, and is completely subjective. In itself, it means nothing besides the way the person is describing their belief

 

[ArtieE]

It doesn't matter. the ''gnostic'' part of that label, doesn't convey anything more than their belief. /their belief that they 'know' that god exists.

You are stating that as if it's a fact you know but it's really not a fact just something you believe right? Nobody actually knows anything and knowledge doesn't exist only belief?

There's no point in using that label/phraseology, unless the person is hence going to explain why they think they 'know', that god exists.

From their perspective when they say they know they mean know not just believe strongly.

What 'belief' conveys is a surety of the position, thus a more apt way to describe it, /since it isn't arbitrary, or multi-meaning. //'gnostic' conclusion can be arrived from anything, and is completely subjective. In itself, it means nothing besides the way the person is describing their belief

So where do you draw the line if anywhere? What would it take for you to say "I know" instead of saying "I believe this very, very, very, very, very, very, very (continue with the very's) strongly."?

 

[ukok102nak]

Should it be according to your mind? he will recompense it, whether you refuse, or whether you choose; and not I: therefore speak what you know.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[amyfeeqah]

It depends on a couple of things. I rarely meet atheists that say they know god-any god-doesn't exist. A lot of atheist focus on the abrahamic god or, if broader, an entity god. However, there is some sense of "god" there but it's not referred to as a noun.

While others, like myself, don't care about Darwin and Lemaitre. I know god doesn't exist because I've noticed everything about god is in one way or another a lived or believed concept of the human wants/needs/ and other psyche, motivations, et cetera. When I approach any person Hindu, Christian, whoever, of what or who god is, there is always a "beyond, above, mystery, etc" type of answer. When I read in scriptures regardless the religion it's more of how people defined god according to their culture and wants/needs.

Nothing about god's definition and nature of existence is external to human thought (regardless of time period).

If this is wrong, well, I haven't came across a person who told me anything foreign of the universe.

Unless someone can give me a characteristic of god that isn't part of any human characteristic or something we want as a characteristic, how can one say god does exist? By default, he doesn't.

Of course, it depends on what you mean by god. God just means object or person of worship. I believe in many spirits but I don't worship them. So, I kind of understand it on both ends.

Hi Carlita. I'm Amy and I'm a Muslim Nice to meet you..
I agree with you that in order to differentiate God from other creations, we have to distinctly know the characteristics of God.
Let me share with you what Islam has taught me about God.. feel free to correct me

Characteristics of God..
1. He must be everlasting.
Meaning He will never die like us human beings and He exists even before anything existed.

2. He must be self-sufficient.
He does not need rest, sleep, food, anything or anyone to keep Him alive and sufficient. He is all powerful on His own, He does not need any external help.

3. He must not be bounded by time, space and mass.
Time as in He knows everything in the past, present and future. His knowledge is not bounded by time.
Space as in He has no definite location at any particular time but of course He can be anywhere He wants since He's the all powerful.
Mass as in He does not have any physical form that our limited mind can come up with. Simply said, any images we have of God in our minds will not be God cuz if God has a materialistic form it'll just be the same as any other creation

4. He has no beginning and no ending.
Nothing made Him come into existence and nothing will put an end to His existence.

This is the God that I worship In Islam we call Him Allah.

here's my email if you wish to chat with me personally Hope this helps.. Take care!
[email protected]