DoubleStandard Morals

[Jayhawker Soule]

Deut, I am sure that there are both Hindus and Buddhists that are bigots. If not towards gays then towards others. Bigotry is PERSONAL and it is wrong no matter who is practicing it.

But you intentionally ignore the point. While it is true that bigotry is a human failing and found in humans irrespective of religion, there is an anti-gay Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in the Bible, which seems unmatched by the non-Abrahamic religions. Put somewhat differently, your God, and your God alone, attacks homosexuality as an abomination. YHWH is a chauvinistic bigot.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I ignore no point Deut. But rather than fight Bigotry with Bigotry, I have decided to act locally and DO something about it. Rather than spread hate and rumors of hate as you seem to applaud, I would rather concentrate on PEACE, understanding and tolerance.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Rather than spread hate and rumors of hate as you seem to applaud, I would rather concentrate on PEACE, understanding and tolerance.

And where have I done that, NetDoc. It's shameful and very unlike you to stoop to such petty distortions. Do you deny a Judeo-Christian scripturally based tradition labeling homosexuality an abomination? Do you deny that such a tradition serves as a fertile breeding ground for homophobia? Have you found anything similar in the Eastern religions?

 

[Scuba Pete]

It's shameful and very unlike you to stoop to such petty distortions.

You should have hada coke alert with this statement. Other's might be imbibing when they read it. You continually distort me and my beliefs. You excell in reconstructing God to be something that he is not.

Instead of trying to wedge people apart, I would rather try to find commonalities.

The Bible does disagree with homosexuality, however it nowhere proposes violence, bigotry, or any other actions against them. Now Deut, where is your dander when it comes to the current practice of using a sword to curtail homosexuality. I would think you would do best to deal with those practices FIRST.

 

[BUDDY]

But you intentionally ignore the point. While it is true that bigotry is a human failing and found in humans irrespective of religion, there is an anti-gay Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in the Bible, which seems unmatched by the non-Abrahamic religions. Put somewhat differently, your God, and your God alone, attacks homosexuality as an abomination. YHWH is a chauvinistic bigot.

That is simply a false representation of what God has said. He treats all sin the same and according to his teaching, God considers homosexuality a sin. The same as theft, lying, murder, rape, incest, etc. Not once in the Bible did God say to treat people who are homosexuals in anything other than a loving and caring (Christian) manner. Some people think that because they know someone who is living a sinful life (i.e. one rooted and ruled by a sinful lifestyle) that they are therefore given the right to treat these people in a sinful way themselves. This is not Biblical doctrine for the New Testament Church.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You excell in reconstructing God to be something that he is not.

I do no more and no less than force you to confront the logic of your position., and this disturbs you.

The Bible does disagree with homosexuality, however it nowhere proposes violence, bigotry, or any other actions against them.

That is preposterous hypocrisy or an astounding demonstration of ignorance. Do you honestly believe that when a theocracy declares you unclean and your relationships an abomination that there are no consequences? Do you truly mean to suggest that this is no more than a disagreement? And for the sake of a disagreement your God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[BUDDY]

That is preposterous hypocrisy or an astounding demonstration of ignorance. Do you honestly believe that when a theocracy declares you unclean and your relationships an abomination that there are no consequences? Do you truly mean to suggest that this is no more than a disagreement? And for the sake of a disagreement your God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah?

God's judgement and punishment of sin, has no bearing on the issue. At issue is the way in which christians are commanded to treat all people. The New Testament tells us to, 'do good unto all men, especially those of the household of faith." This does not say to do good to all men as long as they are not homosexual, does it? There is a distinct difference on how we are to treat people while here on earth, and how God will judge everyone in the last day. Whether a person is right or wrong in their sin is for Him to call, not me. The only thing I can do is show someone the Bible and point them in the right direction, it is there place to either believe and obey, or not believe and face that judgement.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry Deut...

I don't do the Old Testament very well. I am more into the Love Everyone deal. God had his reasons for a strict regimen in the Old Testament. Something about 80 years in the wilderness and grooming a race to produce the messiah. You try it sometime and THEN come tell me how easy it is to do.

However, your claim that you "do no more or less" is a bit hard for MOST of us on this forum to swallow. But of course, that is my opinion. No more. No less.

 

[Jaymes]

He treats all sin the same and according to his teaching, God considers homosexuality a sin. The same as theft, lying, murder, rape, incest, etc.

Uh... gee, thanks. I really enjoy having loving my girlfriend compared to theft, lying, murder, rape, and incest.

No, really. I do.

 

[BUDDY]

Uh... gee, thanks. I really enjoy having loving my girlfriend compared to theft, lying, murder, rape, and incest.

No, really. I do.

I knew that was coming even before I wrote it, so I am sorry that you are offended by it. It is simply what I believe because of my study of the Bible. God views homosexuality as sin, and God looks at all sin the same. As human beings we tend to put sin in ranks dependent upon the harm it produces towards others. God does not make that distinction from what I read. Again, that is what is written to show the nature of God. It is a discription of His attitude and if you take offense to it, I am sorry. It does not mean that God doesn't love you, and it doesn't mean that I don't love you, as I am to love everyone.

 

[Jaymes]

In that case, I am very glad I do not worship a god who cannot differentiate between mass murder and a white lie.

 

[jeffrey]

In that case, I am very glad I do not worship a god who cannot differentiate between mass murder and a white lie.

I lived with my wife before marriage. That is also considered a sin. We are both on our second marriage. That also is considered a sin. Only one sin is considered not to be forgiven. We cannot go without sin.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

I don't think you understand what Saudi Arabia is really like, hun. Being gay in Saudi Arabia means you are put to death. You are beaten, you are stoned, you are beheaded. You can get limbs aputated for the "crime" of sodomy.

On that alone it makes me sick when people whine and say that "gays aren't really opressed!"

Well dear, I never stated that "gays aren't really oppressed". As a matter of fact my statement that

I am not trying to promote wrong any sort of bashing here.

proves not only that I have a bad habit of not checking my typos mostly due to a lack of time but that I acknowledge that people who practice homosexuality are oppressed and that I don't agree with oppression of this sort. While I am sorry that you you got sick, it probably had to do more with selective reading on your part than any alleged insinuation on my part that "gays aren't really oppressed". But you did affirm one point that I was getting at which was that oppresssion in predominanly Islamic countries is much worse than oppression in predominantly Christian countries, so for that I thank you.

The homosexual brain is wired differently than the heterosexual brain- proof of this is comng out every day in more and more scientific reports and studies. You don't "practice" homosexuality, you ARE a homosexual.

Could you please validate that statement so I can post contradicting scientific evidence to validate the statement I made? Here's what intrigues me the most about this particular subject. The exact same kind of studies were done on serial killers to see if their "brains were wired differently" for the purpose of recognizing this kind of alleged disorder before it turned into a serious problem. After it was found that there was no gene or brain wiring problem to be found in serial killers, the study was dropped. I wonder how we would all react if serial killers insisted that these scientific studies continue since they were convinced that there was something wrong with them in their head or genes and that they have been wrongly oppressed by being imprissoned all these years since serial killing was something they were born with and was innate. I'm sure you will be appauled and allege that I am trying to compare serial killing with homosexuality so let me please clarify that that is not the point I am trying to get at. The point I am getting at is that these "scientific reports and studies" that are "coming out every day" have yet to be acknowledged as fact due to contradicting scientific studies and both sides of this argument have biasts.

I think what the OP is getting at is the gay movement attacks the Christian Religion more then any other Religion. Whether it be in the U.S. or England or Canada or where ever. So instead of finding fault with grammer or pick apart a sentence or 2. why not answer the idea behind the post. Why do gays attack Christianity more then other Religions with the same ideals? I'm curious myself.

Thank you for "hitting the nail on the head" jgallandt

Why do Christians attack homosexuality so much?

Thank you for also "hitting the nail on the head" jamaesi

"Why don't you ever hear anyone marching against that?"

Have you been listening for it?

Please enlighten us to marches protesting other religious ideals that proclaim homosexuality as a sin.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Scuba Pete]

Jgallandt makes an EXCELLENT point. We don't stop sinning till the day we die. However, if we are controlled by the Spirit we will have the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Dreamwolf]

This is part of the reason I could not accept being baptist so many rules about who, what, where and how you love. To many people put to much focus on who you love instead of just the love. Love is our search for the good the thing that completes us, and in a way our religion should give us that same complete feeling. So how could such a wonderful God punish you for wanting to find that goodness, that is as close to we get to perfection. I guess what I am really wondering is how can stealing to feed your family or loving the person you see as your soul mate be the same as killing a man in cold blood or blowing up a building to prevent death(in a twisted way)?

Blessings!

 

[Dreamwolf]

The point I am getting at is that these "scientific reports and studies" that are "coming out every day" have yet to be acknowledged as fact due to contradicting scientific studies and both sides of this argument have biasts.

There will always be scientific studies that contradict each other if you look hard enough. There are still people after all who believe that HIV does not lead to AIDS.
Blessings!

 

[jeffrey]

Dreamwolf, I don't think that God punishes us for sin, or it least most sins. Correct us, at times he does, or open our eyes to what we do wrong. I look at it this way. You go to the store with your 4 year old child. Your child wants a great, big candy bar. You tell your child no. The child cannot understand why. In the same way we cannot understand why God wants us to do and act certain ways. We just except his will. Am I being punished for being on my second marriage? Or for living with her before marriage? I do not believe that I am. They are forgiven. Can a mass murderer be forgiven? Of course he can. This is why God sent his son to die. So that no matter what sin we have commited, we can still have a relationship with God. Our kids do alot of things wrong, but no matter what they do, we still love them. And God's love for us will never fail.

 

[jeffrey]

One thing I don't understand is why is it then when a Christian states that It's a sin to sleep with someone of the same sex, out comes the God bashing. What's up with that? NOT ONCE have I seen a thread stating that someone that is gay will roast in hell or something similar to that. I drive a truck for a living and sometimes my mouth gets the best of me. That is a sin. So is murder. So is sleeping with someone of the same sex. Or sleeping with someone of the opposite sex that you are not married to. So is porn. So is lying. So why is it that after that last statement the only people that will bash God and me are gays? A sin is a sin. End of. But guess what? all those mentioned can be forgiven. What two people do behind closed doors is nobody's business except for you, your partner and God. Judge not and ye shall not be judged. It seems that Christians are always getting accused of bashing, but in reality, we are the ones getting bashed. Just my take on things.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Good points, jpgallandt. Belief that homosexuality is a sin is not the same as being intolerant of homosexuals.

 

[jeffrey]

Good points, jpgallandt. Belief that homosexuality is a sin is not the same as being intolerant of homosexuals.

Thank You, Sir. And I totally agree It's not the same.