Doubt regarding Atheism or Theism

[Charity]

:bow::bow::bow:

Gosh mball you sure fooled me, I thought you were more of a leader and here you are being a follower........I was holding you in high esteem and now you've destroyed my image.....:faint: I guess now we can say your a disciple of BiG
Meanie :biglaugh:

 

[Sunstone]

Yes, let's cherish the rotting, constantly dying and decaying bio-matter that we so indentify ourSelves with.

No wonder you're so bummed out. You've been talking with my ex-wife, haven't you?

 

[Sunstone]

1. Is anyone really so certain that they don't question themselves or experience doubt ?
2. If someone is 100 % certain regarding their perspective/faith/or lack of - what is the motivation to discuss or debate their views ?

Just out of curiosity, Stephen, would you want to work in a life-threatening environment with someone who was absolutely certain he or she could not be mistaken?

 

[Escéptico]

Faith in God is uplifting. I can't imagine how depressing it must be to think all there is to your life is a few years here on earth.

You want depressing?

How about believing that the suffering of the innocent is no big deal, because they'll get a reward in some afterlife? How about believing I don't have to regret the wrong you've done on Earth, because all our sins will be forgiven in some afterlife? How about not missing our dear departed, because we believe we'll see them again in some afterlife?

That level of complacency is truly depressing.

 

[BucephalusBB]

How about not missing our dear departed, because we believe we'll see them again in some afterlife?

:sarcastic Yeah that would stop me from missing them.. :sarcastic

 

[sandandfoam]

Just out of curiosity, Stephen, would you want to work in a life-threatening environment with someone who was absolutely certain he or she could not be mistaken?

No I wouldn't.
I don't think I'd like to be stuck in a pub with them either !

 

[Escéptico]

:sarcastic Yeah that would stop me from missing them.. :sarcastic

No need to be snide. What I was trying to point out was the way belief in an afterlife is held merely because it's too painful to think that (as the good Reverend said) 'all there is to your life is a few years here on Earth.'

Maybe we'll do things differently on Earth if we don't think this life is just a warm-up for the big pie-party in the great beyond.

 

[PureX]

No need to be snide. What I was trying to point out was the way belief in an afterlife is held merely because it's too painful to think that (as the good Reverend said) 'all there is to your life is a few years here on Earth.'

Well, for all those human beings whose lives on Earth were a constant torment, thanks to the greed and immorality of their fellow humans, maybe that idea gave them the strength to go on, and to endure it. Would you have preferred that they just give up and be obliterated?

Maybe we'll do things differently on Earth if we don't think this life is just a warm-up for the big pie-party in the great beyond.

Not likely. We adopt the ideas that tend to justify our innate inclinations, not the other way round.

 

[Escéptico]

Well, for all those human beings whose lives on Earth were a constant torment, thanks to the greed and immorality of their fellow humans, maybe that idea gave them the strength to go on, and to endure it. Would you have preferred that they just give up and be obliterated?

All the more reason to persevere if there's no guarantee of a reward in the afterlife. Is what we are and do here on Earth meaningful? Certain believers seem to suggest there's no meaning to this life if there's no afterlife, but I submit that the opposite is actually true.

And it's odd to claim that the only reason people suffer on Earth is through 'the greed and immorality of their fellow humans.' Did humans create typhoons, trypanosomes, birth defects, retroviruses, or earthquakes? Could it be that you're depending on the Good Lord to make good in Heaven after his rather indifferent treatment of us all down below?

We adopt the ideas that tend to justify our innate inclinations, not the other way round.

Can't dispute that. But some ideas we adopt are more self-serving than others. I'd love to think that we'll all have a ball in the great beyond, and the evil will get their come-uppance. But since I don't expect either, I'm less complacent about justice in the here and now.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Just a note: "guarantee of a reward in the afterlife" is not inherent in theism and certainly not a necessary component of religion. Even in the case of the Judeo-Christian tradition it could be considered post-Biblical.

 

[Escéptico]

Right. Belief in a deity doesn't necessarily imply belief in an afterlife, or vice versa. But there are plenty of Biblical references to some sort of afterlife, so the notion is hardly post-Biblical.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Just a note: "guarantee of a reward in the afterlife" is not inherent in theism and certainly not a necessary component of religion. Even in the case of the Judeo-Christian tradition it could be considered post-Biblical.

Right. Belief in a deity doesn't necessarily imply belief in an afterlife, or vice versa. But there are plenty of Biblical references to some sort of afterlife, so the notion is hardly post-Biblical.

Where did I say that belief in an afterlife was post-Biblical? There was clearly an early belief in the shade that formed the substrate to such traditions as the levirate marriage.

 

[Magic Man]

Just a note: "guarantee of a reward in the afterlife" is not inherent in theism and certainly not a necessary component of religion. Even in the case of the Judeo-Christian tradition it could be considered post-Biblical.

So, in this you're saying that there was an afterlife that was not post-biblical, but it's the idea of Heaven that came after?

 

[Willamena]

So, in this you're saying that there was an afterlife that was not post-biblical, but it's the idea of Heaven that came after?

I believe he's saying that the idea that Heaven is a "guarantee of a reward in the afterlife" "could be considered post-Biblical."

 

[Magic Man]

I believe he's saying that the idea that Heaven is a "guarantee of a reward in the afterlife" "could be considered post-Biblical."

That's what I was getting at. I would go further with it to say that if that is what heaven is, then heaven is a completely post-biblical concept.