Dozens arrested in third night of protest

[Stevicus]

Public officials manage to be corrupt all on their own.
(Been a big problem in my town.)
Why share the wealth, eh.

In order for public officials to be corrupt, they'd have to have some sort of connection/bribery to the private sector.

 

[Stevicus]

Imo, pulling him over is not what needs to be addressed, what happened after that is what needs to be addressed.
Even if the shooting was an accident the officer should be prosecuted, because a man is dead because of that officer.

I do not blame the protesters one bit, this violence on people of color has to stop. I was pulled over for plates that had been expired for three years and I was not treated like that man was. I never even had to get out of the car. I got a ticket and that was that, and the officer even felt sorry for me that he had to give it because he knew I was telling the truth when I told him I hardly ever drive that car.

I disagree. The reason for pulling him over is of paramount importance here, since that's what led to this tragedy in the first place. Most of these killings by cops happen due to them being called out over relatively minor, piddly violations which harm no one.

What happens after the traffic stop is also important. But as the saying goes, a stitch in time saves nine.

 

[Stevicus]

Define "Frivolous"

Please see my response to @Valjean in post #18:

 

[Stevicus]

This wouldn't be happening if the US had sensible gun control.

We have corrupt/useless policemen/women in the UK but nowhere near the number of deaths

The major reason why the U.S. doesn't have sensible gun control is because people don't feel protected by the police.

While it doesn't appear to be a factor in this case, I would also look at the War on Drugs as being a major contributory factor which creates the culture of animosity which exists between the police and public.

 

[Stevicus]

If Dereck Chauvin is found innocent of the death of George Floyd I'm wondering if we will see riot's greater than the Rodney King riot's.

Probably so. Rodney King wasn't killed in the incident, and even made a plea of "Can't we all just get along?"

Another thing: The riots really didn't occur until after the not guilty verdict. It's the aftermath and how the local authorities deal with these incidents is what can make the difference between public becoming violent or the public showing more restraint. The lack of justice is what causes the outrage, not necessarily the incident just by itself.

I think it was a big mistake for the local prosecutor to wait a few days before actually charging Chauvin. If they had gotten out in front of it immediately and charged him the second that video was made public, it might have prevented a good deal of violence and rioting. But they waited too long, and that was a mistake.

 

[Revoltingest]

In order for public officials to be corrupt, they'd have to have some sort of connection/bribery to the private sector.

Nah.
Example....
My town has speed limits set lower than allowed by state law
(which regulates such things). City council members discussed
how this encourages speeding, & generates revenue for them.
"Policing for profit" is the term.

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree. The reason for pulling him over is of paramount importance here, since that's what led to this tragedy in the first place.

Maybe it has relevance, so what was the reason?

 

[Twilight Hue]

The major reason why the U.S. doesn't have sensible gun control is because people don't feel protected by the police.

While it doesn't appear to be a factor in this case, I would also look at the War on Drugs as being a major contributory factor which creates the culture of animosity which exists between the police and public.

Don't forget qualified immunity. A lot has to do with how police treat people like dirt and are beneath them. Probably where the saying, "cop an attitude" comes from.

 

[Trailblazer]

The major reason why the U.S. doesn't have sensible gun control is because people don't feel protected by the police.

Nope. The reason is because this is a violent country that glorifies guns and they feel entitled to gun ownership under a constitution that needs to be changed, because it is outdated.

Compare/contrast gun laws in Japan to the United States.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

• Japan is a country of more than 127 million people, but it rarely sees more than 10 gun deaths a year.
• Culture is one reason for the low rate, but gun control is a major one, too.
• Japan has a long list of tests that applicants must pass before gaining access to a small pool of guns.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

The weapons law of Japan begins by stating "No one shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed. Citizens are permitted to possess firearms for hunting and sport shooting, but only after submitting to a lengthy licensing procedure.

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia

“The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it’s not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel’s landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you’ll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don’t forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

Even the most basic framework of Japan’s approach to gun ownership is almost the polar opposite of America’s. U.S. gun law begins with the second amendment's affirmation of the “right of the people to keep and bear arms” and narrows it down from there. Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that “No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords,” later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it.”

From: A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

 

[Stevicus]

My former (very former) computer hardware service guy
got pulled over in Utah for having no front plate. (MI doesn't
have front plates.) It turns out that he had chopped up
people in his trunk. That was the tip of the iceberg....it turned
out that he's a serial killer.
So while I oppose stopping without good reason, it is a useful
opportunity to discover other crimes, eg, outstanding warrants,
murder victims.
BTW, he's now in prison for life (one escape attempt a few years
ago notwithstanding).

Yes, some have brought up this argument as well, but it seems kind of thin in terms of justifying pulling people over at random in the hope they might get lucky.

Was he pulled over only for having no front plate? If that was the case, I wonder what led them to search his trunk. I've been pulled over occasionally, and only one time did they actually ask to search my vehicle. It was when I was traveling through TN, and they said they were searching vehicles looking for drugs. That was a real pain in the butt. Although I think I was targeted because I had no front plate either. AZ also doesn't use front license plates.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, some have brought up this argument as well, but it seems kind of thin in terms of justifying pulling people over at random in the hope they might get lucky.

To be clear, I oppose random stops.

Was he pulled over only for having no front plate? If that was the case, I wonder what led them to search his trunk. I've been pulled over occasionally, and only one time did they actually ask to search my vehicle. It was when I was traveling through TN, and they said they were searching vehicles looking for drugs. That was a real pain in the butt. Although I think I was targeted because I had no front plate either. AZ also doesn't use front license plates.

I don't know the full circumstances of his stop.
But I recall that the vehicle was supposed to be
riding low (compressed suspension).

 

[Stevicus]

Nah.
Example....
My town has speed limits set lower than allowed by state law
(which regulates such things). City council members discussed
how this encourages speeding, & generates revenue for them.
"Policing for profit" is the term.

Yes, I'm familiar with the term, and I'm very much against such practices, since they hit the lower classes who can afford it the least.

But I'm assuming the city council members don't get to keep the revenue for themselves. Presumably, it would go into the city's general fund - although that likely varies from city to city. I guess it could be a form of corruption, since such practices are usually favored by those who don't want to raise taxes on the wealthy, but they have to get the revenue from somewhere. This is how "policing for profit" comes about. Ultimately, it's done to benefit the wealthy capitalists and stick it to the poor.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I'm familiar with the term, and I'm very much against such practices, since they hit the lower classes who can afford it the least.

But I'm assuming the city council members don't get to keep the revenue for themselves. Presumably, it would go into the city's general fund - although that likely varies from city to city. I guess it could be a form of corruption, since such practices are usually favored by those who don't want to raise taxes on the wealthy, but they have to get the revenue from somewhere. This is how "policing for profit" comes about. Ultimately, it's done to benefit the wealthy capitalists and stick it to the poor.

Is corruption in the city still corruption,
even if there's no capitalist to blame it on?
Yes.
Politicians accrue power, even if not lucre.

 

[Stevicus]

Maybe it has relevance, so what was the reason?

The initial reason was that he had expired tags on his license plate. This is relatively common. On any given day, I see quite a few vehicles with expired tags, sometimes even years overdue.

It's not a moving violation.

 

[Stevicus]

Nope. The reason is because this is a violent country that glorifies guns and they feel entitled to gun ownership under a constitution that needs to be changed, because it is outdated.

I agree that this is a violent country, but from what I've read, most of the arguments against gun control seem to revolve around the perceived need for "home defense" and the apparent failure of the police department to be able to adequately protect the citizenry. And, as someone else pointed out upthread, the police have no obligation to protect the citizenry anyway, so many people believe they're left to fend for themselves against the hordes of violent criminals who are out to get them (or so they seem to think).

 

[Trailblazer]

The initial reason was that he had expired tags on his license plate. This is relatively common. On any given day, I see quite a few vehicles with expired tags, sometimes even years overdue.

It's not a moving violation.

I never look but I am surprised if you see a lit of expired tags. I never let a tag expire in my life, except once when the DMV sent the renewal notice to the wrong address. I got pulled over for that and I am glad, because otherwise I would not have known it was expired. I only got a small ticket for that but he could have given me a much bigger ticket.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I disagree that an expired tag is not a frivolous stop. There are far more important crimes for the police to deal with.

The problem is that most of these tragedies started out as something minor and blew up into something bigger because the cops have no sense of proportion.

Then you do not understand how police catch many felons. It is far from frivolous.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, I guess I'm not the only one who has been critical of the police lately.

In my opinion, the best way to lessen the chance of these kinds of shootings taking place is by reining in the police in specific terms.

No, reining in is not what is needed. More training. Why the anti-police attitude? If you were treated unjustly in the past that was probably due to police being underpaid (you do not get the best recruits that way) and undertrained.

 

[Trailblazer]

I agree that this is a violent country, but from what I've read, most of the arguments against gun control seem to revolve around the perceived need for "home defense" and the apparent failure of the police department to be able to adequately protect the citizenry. And, as someone else pointed out upthread, the police have no obligation to protect the citizenry anyway, so many people believe they're left to fend for themselves against the hordes of violent criminals who are out to get them (or so they seem to think).

It would be interesting to take a poll and find out the reasons people own guns. I could not find that in a quick look on the internet but I found this:

The latest results are from Gallup's annual Crime poll, conducted Sept. 30-Oct. 15, 2020. As is typical, the rate of personal gun ownership varies most by political party and ideology, gender, race/ethnicity, region and urbanicity, with smaller differences seen by household income and marital status.

• Republicans (50%), rural residents (48%), men (45%), self-identified conservatives (45%) and Southerners (40%) are the most likely subgroups to say they personally own a gun.
• Liberals (15%), Democrats (18%), non-White Americans (18%), women (19%) and Eastern residents (21%) are the least likely to report personal gun ownership.

What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?

 

[Suave]

Here's one thing I don't understand...
With the capital riot's the are arresting anyone that can be identified by video, pictures, etc.

During riot's where they looted and burned stores there were many seen in videos and pictures carrying items out of stores, destroying and burning things. They have them on video and pitcures too so why not go arrest them.

Maybe the looters and rioters were disguised by their masks they were wearing on store surveillance video,, whereas the Capitol rioters were mask-less.