Dr Adnan Ibrahim on Emotional Atheism

[Godobeyer]

The literal creation is usually called "conception". It develops into an embryo in the first few hours, then into a fetus.

I would not call it evolution. It is a questionable enough word in its usual biological sense, and there is hardly any reason to use it for the development of a fetus from its fertilized egg.

But who knows. Arabic is a very different language. It may sound much better a fit from a native Arabic speaker. I would not know. But it is definitely not evolution in the sense biologists use that word.


It is conception. I fail to see the point of mismatching those events with words that do not suit them.

You give a different name too

We call it creation or formation in Arabic , do you think it's fair to called evolution ?

and process of baby in womb is fair to be call evolution or creation ,I mean which close meaning to concption , the evolution or creation in that case?

 

[Godobeyer]

I see no reason to believe there is anyone responsible. The available evidence sure suggests to me that they arose spontaneously and not by intentional design.

No ,there is reason,to know if your baby is take your side intellegence or mother side, that very curious/interesting question .

Now you gave it a name " I see no reason" instead of "randomness" ...etc

 

[LuisDantas]

You give a different name too

We call it creation or formation in Arabic , do you think it's fair to called evolution ?

No, I don't. But for all I know maybe I would if Arabic were my first language. There is considerable evidence implying that Arabic has a very different style and emphasis.

Unfortunately, I am not at all literate in Arabic.

and process of baby in womb is fair to be call evolution or creation ,I mean which close meaning to concption , the evolution or creation in that case?

If I had to choose between the two words, I would definitely choose evolution. But "development" is a far better match.

 

[LuisDantas]

No ,there is reason,to know if your baby is take your side intellegence or mother side, that very curious/interesting question .

A human being's DNA determines a large extent of his or her attributes - physical and even mental - as it develops. Due to sexual reproduction, half of our DNA is inherited from each parent.

It is an ellegant enough system, but it does not suggest intent nor design, at least to me. Quite on the contrary, I feel confident that it arose fortuitously.

Now you gave it a name " I see no reason" instead of "randomness" ...etc

I'm not following. If it helps any, nothing in the cycle of mammal reproduction and life seems to me to have been meant by an intelligent creator of life, nor of mammals or of humans.

I definitely understand the origin of human beings to have been entirely random, albeit shaped by environmental pressures - not any different from those of earthworms or cockroaches.

 

[Godobeyer]

A human being's DNA determines a large extent of his or her attributes - physical and even mental - as it develops. Due to sexual reproduction, half of our DNA is inherited from each parent.

It is an ellegant enough system, but it does not suggest intent nor design, at least to me. Quite on the contrary, I feel confident that it arose fortuitously.

Ok back , who is responsible for your opinion in creation of bones , the sprem or egg ?

I'm not following. If it helps any, nothing in the cycle of mammal reproduction and life seems to me to have been meant by an intelligent creator of life, nor of mammals or of humans.

I definitely understand the origin of human beings to have been entirely random, albeit shaped by environmental pressures - not any different from those of earthworms or cockroaches.

randomness and natural selective can't be in same path.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

For exemple
If NAZA home found a home and tools in Mars , they will try to find out who build that home , and who invite the tools , right ?

That depends. How do I know that I see a home and tools?

No , I mean the line of ink in piece of paper is sign that someone write by pen.

Not necessarily. A pen could be blown by the wind into a piece of paper.

When you look at watch you would be imagine how be designed, who designed it.

Do you think human body is complicated than watch ? I do believe it is.

So that's your criteria: complexity? If a thing is highly complex, then it needs a creator and if it has a low level of complexity, it doesn't need a creator?

In our commun concept "Creator" I do agree , but in some detail of beliefs I may not.


I watch that movie, why you take a movie story to neglige the existence of Creator/Designer ?

I'm not. You missed my point.

Sometimes something afront of your eyes , you may don't notice it.

If you don't see invisible things does not mean that it's not exist. that's what I mean by gravity and electricity , and may microps...etc

I'm not rejecting claims for your God merely because he's invisible. Yes: some invisible things exist. This doesn't mean your God exists.

 

[LuisDantas]

Ok back , who is responsible for your opinion in creation of bones , the sprem or egg ?

A combination of random chance, environmental factors and chemistry.

It is technically possible that there was some sort of conscious intervention, but logic and evidence imply otherwise.

randomness and natural selective can't be in same path.

Why not? They have been together for literally billions of years.

 

[Godobeyer]

No, I don't. But for all I know maybe I would if Arabic were my first language. There is considerable evidence implying that Arabic has a very different style and emphasis.

Unfortunately, I am not at all literate in Arabic.

Of couse Arabic had different style than English , but I am happy that I could communicate with foriegn langauge, and understand it.

How many Arabic words you know ?

If I had to choose between the two words, I would definitely choose evolution. But "development" is a far better match.

Why it's evolution ?
evolution is about some detail changed exist for long time millions of years, i guess?
not something appears from almost nothing. (sprem combined to egg).

Do you consider produce of car or plane by human is close to evolution or creation ?

 

[LuisDantas]

Of couse Arabic had different style than English , but I am happy that I could communicate with foriegn langauge, and understand it.

I hear you. Reaching across language barriers is a virtual miracle of wonder. It opens so many wondrous doors!

How many Arabic words you know ?

"Allah", "Islam" (peaceful submission to God's will), "Shahada" (declaration of faith), "Muslim" (which I understand to mean roughly "devoted worshipper"), "Kafir" (a curious blend of "liar" with "disbeliever"), and that is probably it.

I would love to know more. But I am not gifted with that ability.

Why it's evolution ?

Because it involves changes as time passes.

evolution is about some detail changed exist for long time millions of years, i guess?

Not really. Evolution is a word used in many contexts, usually involving the passage of time, but not _that_ much time!

not something appears from almost nothing. (sprem combined to egg).

Many uses of the word evolution do in fact involve development from "almost nothing". It is neither unusual nor a necessary feature.

Do you consider produce of car or plane by human is close to evolution or creation ?

Neither really. It is exaustion.

 

[Godobeyer]

That depends. How do I know that I see a home and tools?

as suppose
After NAZA discovered that , don't you be curious who built that home and who invent these tools ?

Not necessarily. A pen could be blown by the wind into a piece of paper.

try to run away from my point lol , but it's ok

a word written in paper by ink , is not that sign of pen ?

So that's your criteria: complexity? If a thing is highly complex, then it needs a creator and if it has a low level of complexity, it doesn't need a creator?

No , its does not that what I meant , I mean something get structured, a rock it's not like cat for exemple, both are things, but one is alive,rock is not.

I'm not. You missed my point.

Not I don't miss you point , most of religions believe in Creator(s),that commun that I share with them, but we don't match with details of beliefs .

I'm not rejecting claims for your God merely because he's invisible. Yes: some invisible things exist. This doesn't mean your God exists.

Yes God exist , you were not exist and you will not exist (died) you just consume your period of time now .

 

[psychoslice]

I most certainly am not. I was pointing out that beliefs commonly held by the populace at large are also held by atheists. Belief in a round Earth is common to both theists and atheists. Likewise, belief in natural selection is common to both theists and atheists.

Yes many theists are seeing the light, and giving up beliveing in their sripture as being literal, the jig is up.

 

[McBell]

I don't understand a lot of things, then why wasting your time debating with me.

Wait....
you think you have been "debating" in this thread?
Seriously?

 

[McBell]

Since you compared it to Hovind, then i regard it as dishonesty and an argument from fallacy and you know it.

If you dislike being compared to Hovind, stop acting like him.

 

[McBell]

For exemple ?

Snowflakes

 

[McBell]

Ok back , who is responsible for your opinion in creation of bones , the sprem or egg ?

That is like asking what colour the number seven smells like.

randomness and natural selective can't be in same path.

yes they can.

 

[Godobeyer]

"Allah", "Islam" (peaceful submission to God's will), "Shahada" (declaration of faith), "Muslim" (which I understand to mean roughly "devoted worshipper"), "Kafir" (a curious blend of "liar" with "disbeliever"), and that is probably it.

I would love to know more. But I am not gifted with that ability.

There is may many words you may know.

Alhaj , Ramadan,Jihad ,Sunna, Emirates (Prince country plural),Amir (prince).
Muslimah (Muslim woman) .Hokm(law) , Sharia (law) ,Alqaeda (the Base) , Jabhat Alnusra (front of victory)

Because it involves changes as time passes.

Not really. Evolution is a word used in many contexts, usually involving the passage of time, but not _that_ much time!


Many uses of the word evolution do in fact involve development from "almost nothing". It is neither unusual nor a necessary feature.

So I think you suggest that langauge scientists delete "creation" and God , and Creator" from dictionary ?

Neither really. It is exaustion.

I do believe human produce something like cars or planes , is the process of production is close to evolution or creation ?

 

[Godobeyer]

That is like asking what colour the number seven smells like.

Because you don't know ?

yes they can.

how randomness apply with natural selective?

 

[Godobeyer]

Wait....
you think you have been "debating" in this thread?
Seriously?

No, we are watching movie.

 

[McBell]

No, we are watching movie.

Actually, that makes sense.
Because neither of you are "debating" anything in this thread.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is may many words you may know.

Alhaj , Ramadan,Jihad ,Sunna, Emirates (Prince country plural),Amir (prince).
Muslimah (Muslim woman) .Hokm(law) , Sharia (law) ,Alqaeda (the Base) , Jabhat Alnusra (front of victory)

Oh, right. I knew of Ramadan, Jihad, Muslimah and Sharia already.

So I think you suggest that langauge scientists delete "creation" and God , and Creator" from dictionary ?

Science does not deal with creation in the religious sense, nor with deities. Those concepts are outside science's scope.

I do believe human produce something like cars or planes , is the process of production is close to evolution or creation ?

There is merit in choosing words to present the proper meaning as opposed to some metaphor or approximation. I don't think it is wise to insist on labelling things as either evolution or creation when they are in truth neither.

In any case, sorry, I am just not sure of what you are asking here.