Dr Adnan Ibrahim on Emotional Atheism

[FearGod]

You have it backward: I don't believe in God because every argument I've ever seen for God has failed logically.

It's up to you for choosing what it amkes more sense to you.

There's no such thing as "a fact for me"; one of us is wrong. How should we go about deciding who is right and who is wrong?

The judgement day can.

 

[LuisDantas]

Thank you,

You are welcome. Good will is always something to welcome.

I'm telling it to you from my practice, i meet in daily basis people who are praying daily in the mosque and
i know that they're evils and i know people that don't pray even once and they're like angels and similarly i can see
religious people who are like angels and the others are evils, so i confirm it to you that religion has nothing to
do with it.

That is an exageration, IMO. At least, it has always been my understanding that religion should hope to bring the best on people.

 

[FearGod]

What I can make of the video certainly is. At this point I am honestly wondering how much logical sense, if any, it makes in Arabic. It is not a matter of belief or even of good will, but rather of grammatical coherence.

If you can provide us with a better English translation by all means do so. It is sorely wanted.

Yes some words are translated in such a silly way, but I'm sorry translation is a hard job and i guess
@Debater Slayer can do it faster and better than I.

 

[YmirGF]

Still you're living in a delusion which you believe it to be true and a fact, nothing to do, it's up to you.

Coming from you, I will take that as a vast compliment.

 

[FearGod]

You are welcome. Good will is always something to welcome.

That is an exageration, IMO. At least, it has always been my understanding that religion should hope to bring the best on people.

hypocrites do exist, they pretend to be religious while they're so bad(evils).

 

[LuisDantas]

hypocrites do exist, they pretend to be religious while they're so bad(evils).

I wish it were that simple. We all would be so much better off.

 

[McBell]

Believe me I'm only telling the truth, it's a fact that religion is nonsense for some and similarly the ones who
speaks about religion will be speaking nonsense, just a fact and nothing else.

I cannot believe you when your posts strongly indicate you do not know what the word "fact" means, you regard pure nonsense as truth, and all whilst on a morally bankrupt high horse.

 

[McBell]

Thank you, that's the morals of the atheists, i once subscribed in their forum and their language
is telling much of what they're.

Morals.
Yet another word your posts strongly indicate you do not know the meaning of.

 

[McBell]

Really, are you pretending to lack understanding and you're a mod.
I said in one post that loonies and children are exempted from being questioned(according to my religion)
and he used my words to say that I'm exempted, not strange, the insincerity is normal for some.

Now you reveal you do not even understand punctuation...
You do know what a question mark is, right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's up to you for choosing what it amkes more sense to you.

And if we're both rational and have the same facts, we should come to the same conclusion.

I haven't seen facts that would, by my understanding, support the conclusion that God exists.

- do you have useful facts that I don't have? If so, please provide them.

- am I making a mistake in logic? Should the facts I already have lead to the conclusion of God? If so, please point out my error.

The judgement day can.

Do you have something we can use right here and now?

Presumably, you weren't convinced of the truth of Islam by some event that hasn't happened yet; what convinced you?

 

[YmirGF]

Believe me I'm only telling the truth, it's a fact that religion is nonsense for some and similarly the ones who
speaks about religion will be speaking nonsense, just a fact and nothing else.

You see, that is the truly weird part for many of us to choke down, FearGod. I am very certain that you do sincerely believe that you are telling the truth, as you see the truth. That your version of truth is at odds with my ideas of "truth" does not come as a big surprise to me. Due to your entrenched religious beliefs about reality, your answers are often very predictable and, in those terms, quite understandable. That said, I do also recognize that English is not your first language and think you do pretty well for yourself, all things considered.

No, i said why some discuss religion while they regard it as nonsense and a myth, IOW why wasting
their time for nonsense.

While true, I don't think you grasp, like many theist - to be fair - how long many of us have viewed these fanciful tales as myth. For example, invoking warnings of the Judgment Day to most atheists will simply generate a grin or a giggle. We do not take the idea seriously and also seriously question any type of god that would foist such an unfair thing on his/her/its creations. It is not consistent with the concept of a loving god.

 

[Parsimony]

Oh no, I hope your not one of those flat earth people, for god sake Noooooo.

I most certainly am not. I was pointing out that beliefs commonly held by the populace at large are also held by atheists. Belief in a round Earth is common to both theists and atheists. Likewise, belief in natural selection is common to both theists and atheists.

 

[Godobeyer]

Why does there have to be a "who"?

Because every designe had designer , every home had it's builder and made structure for it.
it's would be insane and idiot to believe home/car...etc is build by it self,without workers and structures, so human body and other creatures.

But how do you know whether something is designed? You need to have a way to tell between designed and undesigned things.

If sonething was undesigned, how would you know?

If you see line of pen in paper , so you will know that someone use pen .
so on.
designed thing always required designer.

I think you missed his point: once we have established that something is a creation, we can say that it was created by a creator. But what many religious people do is assume that something is a creation without good reason.

No I don't miss his point , he was serious about ""I agree with creation required creator "

That's one area where Dr. Ibrahim's video seemed to make no sense at all. What do you see as the problem with "giving something a name"?

He talking about atheist give labels when they don't hold the truth, or face science trouble such "by accident, or natural selective, or randomness ..."

Beavers don't live in beaver dams, either. They live in lodges - not the same thing.

I google it , not big different between beaver dams and lodges , that's depend what he means in video.

https://www.google.dz/search?biw=10...0...1c.1.64.img..0.2.287...0i7i30.yNBcK_QryVs

https://www.google.dz/search?biw=10...1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.img..0.1.150.-JeSB2KB1XM

It's obvious to us that a watch is designed, but it's useful to think about why this is so. Do you understand what allows us to identify a watch as designed?

God gift to humans : mind

Because there's no evidence for God. Do you think that accepting that one invisible thing exists means we have to accept that every conceivable invisible thing exists?

I do accept invisible things is exist , some we regnize them , like eletercity and gravity.

Mind also invisible;do you see your mind ?
Why eye vision is on front not inside to body, to see your mind ?

Sorry - I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Quran mention there was creatures before Adam and Even , very problably were humans .

 

[LuisDantas]

Because every designe had designer , every home had it's builder and made structure for it.
it's would be insane and idiot to believe home/car...etc is build by it self,without workers and structures, so human body and other creatures.

True enough. There are two reasons why that is so, neither of which supports the idea of a Creator God.

As I attempted to point out in post #84 - http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...-emotional-atheism.189427/page-5#post-4834672

Watch up to about 13:00: "(...) how did he determine that it was a watch? This is where we get back to exploiting our laziness and thinking about how we determined that it was a watch? Oh, he has mountains of evidence that this particular object that he is holding is a designed watch for a purpose and no evidence to support the idea that it could occur naturally. And yet when you extend the analogy to the universe, now we're talking about the natural world, you are talking about things that do occur naturally."

"What is worse is that people tend to use Paley's watchmaker believe that God in fact designed and created everything, and if that is the case, there can be no contrast between what is designed and what is not designed, because everything is designed, and you are walking in a beach full of watches, in an universe full of watches, and you yourself are a watch. And at that point you can no longer pick this specific watch and say that it has the hallmarks of design, if your worldview has it that everything is designed (...)"

If you see line of pen in paper , so you will know that someone use pen .
so on.
designed thing always required designer.

Existence itself is by no means known to have been designed. It is also at least arguably impossible to tell whether it was, for the reasons pointed out in the video and transcribed above.

No I don't miss his point , he was serious about ""I agree with creation required creator "

And he went on to explain why that tells us nothing whatsoever about whether there is a Creator of Existence. In fact, it can't tell us anything.

He talking about atheist give labels when they don't hold the truth, or face science trouble such "by accident, or natural selective, or randomness ..."

Then he has a very poor understanding of science indeed, and has no business attempting to criticize it. The average fourteen years old child is expected to do considerably better.

(...)

God gift to humans : mind

Mind is indeed a marvelous thing. That it was divine in origin is speculative at best, though.

We know that watches were designed because we have comparison frameworks and previous experience that leads us to that conclusion. That can't be done with existence itself unless one somehow has the ability to witness the creation of universes.

I do accept invisible things is exist , some we regnize them , like eletercity and gravity.

Mind also invisible;do you see your mind ?
Why eye vision is on front not inside to body, to see your mind ?

All of those entities are detectable in one way or another. They have clear, discernible effects.

Not so for a Creator God.

Quran mention there was creatures before Adam and Even , very problably were humans .

I honestly wonder why people attempt to interpret the Qur'an (or the Bible or even the Torah) as if they described literal events. For the most part it is clear that they do not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because every designe had designer , every home had it's builder and made structure for it.
it's would be insane and idiot to believe home/car...etc is build by it self,without workers and structures, so human body and other creatures.

Go back a step: once you establish that something has been designed, you can say that a designer made it. But how do you establish that it was designed?

Or look at it another way: say, hypothetically, you saw something that wasn't designed. How would you know? What characteristics would you look for in order to come to the conclusion that it wasn't designed?

If you see line of pen in paper , so you will know that someone use pen .
so on.
designed thing always required designer.

Every line of ink on a piece of paper was designed? Haven't you ever left a mark on your paper accidentally? Dropped your pen on a piece of paper? I have. Not all ink marks on paper are designed.

No I don't miss his point , he was serious about ""I agree with creation required creator "

And then he asked how to decide whether something is or isn't a creation. He isn't assuming that everything you call a creation really is one.

He talking about atheist give labels when they don't hold the truth, or face science trouble such "by accident, or natural selective, or randomness ..."

He has a problem with conclusions?

I google it , not big different between beaver dams and lodges , that's depend what he means in video.

https://www.google.dz/search?biw=10...0...1c.1.64.img..0.2.287...0i7i30.yNBcK_QryVs

https://www.google.dz/search?biw=10...1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.img..0.1.150.-JeSB2KB1XM

A beaver dam is just a pile of sticks and brush stuck together. Have you ever seen one in person? I have. I've also seen river blockages that happened from debris being washed down and clogging a river or creek. They can be hard to tell apart. They can also do the same jobs.

God gift to humans : mind

I meant what criteria do you use? When you look at a watch, what features about it tell you that it must have been designed?

I do accept invisible things is exist , some we regnize them , like eletercity and gravity.

Do you accept other religions' invisible gods?

There was a story called The Invisible Man. Do you think the invisible man is real?

Just because you think some invisible things are real doesn't mean you have to accept all invisible things are real. Same for me.

 

[FearGod]

I cannot believe you when your posts strongly indicate you do not know what the word "fact" means, you regard pure nonsense as truth, and all whilst on a morally bankrupt high horse.

The truth for me is the nonsense to you.

 

[FearGod]

Now you reveal you do not even understand punctuation...
You do know what a question mark is, right?

I don't understand a lot of things, then why wasting your time debating with me.

 

[LuisDantas]

The truth for me is the nonsense to you.

Just like that? With no explanation, no attempt at reaching a better mutual understanding?

 

[FearGod]

Just like that? With no explanation, no attempt at reaching a better mutual understanding?

It's like 2 men looking at a woman, one see her as so beautiful and the other see her as so ugly.
who's telling the truth, you may say to him that's nonsense, she's ugly, does that make you right
and him wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's like 2 men looking at a woman, one see her as so beautiful and the other see her as so ugly.
who's telling the truth, you may say to him that's nonsense, she's ugly, does that make you right
and him wrong.

I don't think that can work. You can't find the belief in God Creator both important and inconsequential at the same time.

If it is important enough for you to treat people differently, then you should have solid justification as for why.

If it isn't, then you shouldn't care whether people disbelieve.