Drugs and Religion

[Elder_Bevan]

because as paul teaches in corinthians, "our bodies are temples" we are not to defile the temple of god. also when we choose to do drugs we choose to give up our agency, or freedom to choose. when we become addicted to a substance, we can no longer choose for ourselves. agency is one of gods greatest gifts to us.

http://www.elderbevan.blogspot.com

 

[The Neo Nerd]

What the church wants is to set 'moral standards', not to actually 'control' them.:sarcastic

Pffff that is exactly what religion is for to control the masses.

-Q

 

[Renji]

Pffff that is exactly what religion is for to control the masses.

-Q

Quite agree. Especially the contraceptives vs. Catholic church. But they're quite changing their stands on some issues now so it isn't always about controlling the masses.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Whilst i agree with you on the condom things, which let's face it HAD to happen, it's deeper, it isn't obvious even to the people exercising control on the masses.

I take the sociologists view that religion is an invention of society to control and bond the members in that society.

Don't get me wrong i know they don't start them out to gain control, but once they do get a little they use religion to gain more. It's human nature and up to a point a force for good.
'
-Q

 

[jmvizanko]

because as paul teaches in corinthians, "our bodies are temples" we are not to defile the temple of god. also when we choose to do drugs we choose to give up our agency, or freedom to choose. when we become addicted to a substance, we can no longer choose for ourselves. agency is one of gods greatest gifts to us.

check out my blog for more on what mormons believe: A man on a mission

I always love this one. You think that the vague statement "bodies are temples" makes a specific point about drug use why? This is where the bible stops having something to say, because it hardly says anything, if anything about drug use, and the believer just interprets it to fit the morality they prefer.

Can you tell us more specifically why you think it is bad for the "temple?". Because many drugs have positive effects, and many are close to physiologically harmless. And there is a spectrum as well. Do you drink coffee? Or are you willing to admit that certain drugs are more safe and useful than others?

In the end, I think that, in general, Christians are just more prudes about doing something a bit carnal and fun. I don't see how they can see a clear statement from their bible that says its wrong, so it has to be this more general approach to life that makes them despise drug use.

 

[jmvizanko]

I'll give you a Hindu reasoning.

Anything that causes attachment, dependency to material life is considered detrimental to spiritual progress. As well as that, everything is influenced by one of the three modes of nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. When we put something into our body, the prominent mode of that thing influences our own body and consciousness. So things like drugs and alcohol are in the mode of ignorance, and will cause the consciousness of the individual to sway that way. An example of someone deeply in the state of ignorance would be a lazy person, depressed, very messy, dirty, spends little time in pursuit of knowledge etc.

So drugs and alcohol are definitely discouraged.

I almost am offended to be told that drug use inherently puts one in a state of "ignorance.". Drugs can be used as a way to be creative and see the universe and new knowledge in ways you could not without them. Drugs can be a deeply spiritual experience, displaying a way of looking at the universe that can make its beauty much more profoundly appreciable. Drugs can make certain activities, such as sex and music, much more enjoyable.

How do any of these equate to ignorance? Or at least more ignorance than sitting around meditating and chanting?

 

[Madhuri]

I almost am offended to be told that drug use inherently puts one in a state of "ignorance.". Drugs can be used as a way to be creative and see the universe and new knowledge in ways you could not without them. Drugs can be a deeply spiritual experience, displaying a way of looking at the universe that can make its beauty much more profoundly appreciable. Drugs can make certain activities, such as sex and music, much more enjoyable.

How do any of these equate to ignorance? Or at least more ignorance than sitting around meditating and chanting?

I assume the OP is referring to the kinds of drugs that are generally addictive and harmful to the body. If you're talking about taking something medicinal every now and then, it really isn't a big deal.

But yes, everything has a particular influence on one's consciousness and most drugs (naughty ones) are in the mode of ignorance. I'll tell you what, if you see that the affect of a certain drug taken regularly has a high probability of the user falling into a state of depression or lethargy or causing mental deficiency, then that is the variety of drug I am speaking of. Alcohol is a wonderful example.

By the way, I did not say that it puts one 'inherently' in a state of ignorance. We are constantly influenced by things of all modes. Even if you take harmful drugs, you might be eating good food, surrounding yourself with other positive things. You are always influenced by the 3 modes, just one will be more predominant than another and that will show in the individual's behaviour and attitude.

 

[jmvizanko]

I assume the OP is referring to the kinds of drugs that are generally addictive and harmful to the body. If you're talking about taking something medicinal every now and then, it really isn't a big deal.

But yes, everything has a particular influence on one's consciousness and most drugs (naughty ones) are in the mode of ignorance. I'll tell you what, if you see that the affect of a certain drug taken regularly has a high probability of the user falling into a state of depression or lethargy or causing mental deficiency, then that is the variety of drug I am speaking of. Alcohol is a wonderful example.

By the way, I did not say that it puts one 'inherently' in a state of ignorance. We are constantly influenced by things of all modes. Even if you take harmful drugs, you might be eating good food, surrounding yourself with other positive things. You are always influenced by the 3 modes, just one will be more predominant than another and that will show in the individual's behaviour and attitude.

Well the OP is obviously talking about recreational drugs, which are not all harmful or addictive. Mushrooms, for instance, are neither. I agree that any drug that leads to depression is a problem, but then being fat can too. Why are religious people so much more opposed to drug use than similarly dangerous indulgences?

I agree completely about alcohol. Which is why its sad that its the only recreational drug I can do legally, as its one of the worst ones.

I don't know what 3 modes you are talking about.

 

[Madhuri]

I don't know what 3 modes you are talking about.

Goodness, Passion and Ignorance. Those are the 3 modes of material nature, according to Vedic philosophy.

'Religion' focuses on different things at different times. That's because 'religion' is made up of people and culture.

Thing about Hinduism is that it doesn't group things into 'good' and 'bad' so much as other religions do. There is a good emphasis on balance, and discouragement of repression. So for example, sexual activity is something that the yogi strives to overcome desire for (mode of passion). But a lot of people go so far as to give up sex life before they are ready. They become repressed and then one day do something terrible, like sexually abuse someone. Spiritual life is a slow progression, and so as long as a person is living the best they can then self-improvement will occur. Just try your best to be good and live a balanced life, according to this philosophy.

 

[Elder_Bevan]

I always love this one. You think that the vague statement "bodies are temples" makes a specific point about drug use why? This is where the bible stops having something to say, because it hardly says anything, if anything about drug use, and the believer just interprets it to fit the morality they prefer.

Can you tell us more specifically why you think it is bad for the "temple?". Because many drugs have positive effects, and many are close to physiologically harmless. And there is a spectrum as well. Do you drink coffee? Or are you willing to admit that certain drugs are more safe and useful than others?

In the end, I think that, in general, Christians are just more prudes about doing something a bit carnal and fun. I don't see how they can see a clear statement from their bible that says its wrong, so it has to be this more general approach to life that makes them despise drug use.

what is your view on it? lets kill ourselves even faster with drugs so that we can go straight to...no where?

 

[Gloone]

Goodness, Passion and Ignorance. Those are the 3 modes of material nature, according to Vedic philosophy.

'Religion' focuses on different things at different times. That's because 'religion' is made up of people and culture.

Thing about Hinduism is that it doesn't group things into 'good' and 'bad' so much as other religions do. There is a good emphasis on balance, and discouragement of repression. So for example, sexual activity is something that the yogi strives to overcome desire for (mode of passion). But a lot of people go so far as to give up sex life before they are ready. They become repressed and then one day do something terrible, like sexually abuse someone. Spiritual life is a slow progression, and so as long as a person is living the best they can then self-improvement will occur. Just try your best to be good and live a balanced life, according to this philosophy.

I think spiritual progression is only slowed down by being around those that are not very spiritual. You mention a yogi striving to overcome sexual desires, I don't think sexual desires are all that bad. However people strive to overcome them and you say take it to the point where they no longer have a desire for sex which seems awful. Do you think drugs would be good for people like that to release their sexual-frustrations?

 

[Madhuri]

I think spiritual progression is only slowed down by being around those that are not very spiritual. You mention a yogi striving to overcome sexual desires, I don't think sexual desires are all that bad. However people strive to overcome them and you say take it to the point where they no longer have a desire for sex which seems awful. Do you think drugs would be good for people like that to release their sexual-frustrations?

All material desires are eventually eliminated. Sexual desire is just one attachment to the material world. When a person reaches a state of Realisation, they are no longer affected by the modes of nature and are no longer under the control of material nature. It is only horrible to force one's self to abstain if the desire is there.

I don't see how drugs are a better option than sex. The sex desire goes as a natural part of spiritual progress. Just strive for a spiritual life and these things will happen naturally.

 

[ChristineES]

Because when on drugs and alcohol, they can't be controlled by religion.

I think it is better than being controlled by drugs or alcohol.

Religion doesn't control me, I control me. I just let my faith and God guide me.

 

[jmvizanko]

what is your view on it? lets kill ourselves even faster with drugs so that we can go straight to...no where?

No, my view is that not all drugs are harmful and some can be enlightening, mind enhancing, and just plain fun.

If you never want to try them because you think they are always a bad thing for anybody, then don't do them, but know you're wrong.

 

[jmvizanko]

All material desires are eventually eliminated. Sexual desire is just one attachment to the material world. When a person reaches a state of Realisation, they are no longer affected by the modes of nature and are no longer under the control of material nature. It is only horrible to force one's self to abstain if the desire is there.

I don't see how drugs are a better option than sex. The sex desire goes as a natural part of spiritual progress. Just strive for a spiritual life and these things will happen naturally.

Wow. I'd hate to be in a religion that thinks sex needs to go. What about enjoying sex equates to spiritual immaturity?

 

[Madhuri]

Wow. I'd hate to be in a religion that thinks sex needs to go. What about enjoying sex equates to spiritual immaturity?

Your reaction is really interesting.

We're spiritually immature anyway. If we were Realised, we wouldn't be in this world.
Sex isn't bad, in fact it is important in a loving relationship.
The point is, sex desire, along with all material desires, evaporate when one becomes very close to Realisation.

You're looking at it the wrong way. The same way, in fact, as the person who makes a decision too early to abstain.
Sex isn't something that one needs to overcome, it's something that is overcome in a very natural process.

If you still don't understand what I am saying, then I will put it again this way:

What binds us to the material platform of life is attachments to material nature. So as long as we have any attachments in this world, we continue to be born into it. There is nothing in my religion that says you should get out of this world. The path of realisation is for those who understand that this life is illusory and want to get out. Through spiritual practice, our Consciousness evolves and gradually, we are no longer controlled by the human condition.

Sex desire is part of the human condition. It is one aspect of our biology that controls our thought and actions. This relates back to the OP in the sense that drugs can also be controlling- if they make a person dependent on them for relief or pleasure, then it is one other tie to the material world. If a person wants out of here, they should not allow themselves to become dependent on drugs- so drug use is discouraged.

 

[jmvizanko]

I apologize, because I clearly don't understand what you believe at all. Are you saying that the path away from enjoying things like sex is a spiritual path for just certain people that want to leave this life, whatever that means? Or are you saying that is something everybody should be striving for?

And despite the fact that I don't really think the word spiritual has a clear definition or meaning, the meanings I have seen it associated with makes me disagree that we are inherantly spiritually immature.

 

[Penumbra]

Well, most religions promote discipline, and excessive drug use and alcohol use is not disciplined. Some religions wish for all of it to be banned while others allow these things in moderation. Some religions have even made use of various substances in ceremonies or to have their experiences and such.

If a religion promoted destructive substances or promoted excessive levels of potentially destructive substances, then it would probably lead itself to oblivion. Like how religions that preach suicide don't exactly last very long.

Plus if a religion promotes drugs and alcohol, it's basically giving up its attempt at meaning, and followers might as well just be drinkers and druggies and the concept of the religion telling them to do it wouldn't be relevant anymore.

The point is, sex desire, along with all material desires, evaporate when one becomes very close to Realisation.

All of these material desires evaporate when one becomes clinically depressed as well. In fact a lack of interest or pleasure in the things the world has to offer is a key symptom of clinical depression, and yet is extremely similar to what some religions promote.

 

[Madhuri]

I apologize, because I clearly don't understand what you believe at all. Are you saying that the path away from enjoying things like sex is a spiritual path for just certain people that want to leave this life, whatever that means? Or are you saying that is something everybody should be striving for?

And despite the fact that I don't really think the word spiritual has a clear definition or meaning, the meanings I have seen it associated with makes me disagree that we are inherantly spiritually immature.

I am saying that sex is part of the material world. Matter and Spirit are different. Material and spiritual are different. While we are in a material body, we are controlled by material senses, desires, needs, pains etc. When we transcend the material, we are no longer controlled by these material bondages. So as sex is something that is very much linked to the physical body, it is no longer a need that controls you once you become Realised. Realised is the same as Enlightenment. It is when you fully understand Self and God. In Vedic philosophy, when this occurs, the illusions of the material world become apparent and the individual no longer feels any attachment to remaining here.

Spiritual immaturity in the Vedic context refers to our state of ignorance. The purpose of life is to open our consciousness and to evolve spiritually. We all start out in the dark, and eventually become enlightened.

 

[Madhuri]

All of these material desires evaporate when one becomes clinically depressed as well. In fact a lack of interest or pleasure in the things the world has to offer is a key symptom of clinical depression, and yet is extremely similar to what some religions promote.

There's a huge difference though. An enlightened person experiences Joy because there is no longer any illusion. They see that the sufferings and pain of this world are illusory and temporary. They experience the divine connection between all things, and experience love for everything.

A depressed person is either sad or indifferent. An enlightened person lives in Love. As my sig says, the opposite of love is indifference.