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Drugs and Religion

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
because as paul teaches in corinthians, "our bodies are temples" we are not to defile the temple of god. also when we choose to do drugs we choose to give up our agency, or freedom to choose. when we become addicted to a substance, we can no longer choose for ourselves. agency is one of gods greatest gifts to us.

check out my blog for more on what mormons believe: A man on a mission

Paul in 1Corinthians reaffirms Isaiah 22:12-14. Paul didn't operate in a vacuum, he isolated himself from the lusty fornicators that Corinth was famous for at the time.

Love it how people with an agenda thump a Bible to spout their doctrine, rather than the doctrine. Keep it up, Elder. I'm feeling less like a Mormon by the day. ;)
 

jmvizanko

Uber Tool
There's a huge difference though. An enlightened person experiences Joy because there is no longer any illusion. They see that the sufferings and pain of this world are illusory and temporary. They experience the divine connection between all things, and experience love for everything.

Well the joy of sex is in the set of everything. But I guess we just have to let you have your definition of enlightenment.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
Because when on drugs and alcohol, they can't be controlled by religion.

Pretty true. It would be much more difficult if everyone was drunk or high.

What I really dislike about religion is the controlling aspect. I have to go through enough bad things in life, without the help of any God, so if drinking or taking drugs will help, then I will do it. I don't like being told what I can and can't do.

You forgot something. Religions are not about people having fun.

Yep, I agree.

I usually dislike this saying, 'everything in moderation, but at times it is true. When it starts getting in the way of life and causing problems, then I don't agree with drug/ alochol use. But, I have nothing against people being sensible.
 
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jmvizanko

Uber Tool
I wish I knew what that meant.

You said the enlightened person experiences love for everything. Everything includes the pleasure and enjoyment of sex.

And does that mean an enlightened person sees child rape as just part of the universe's holism, and loves that too? Because to me, your enlightenment sounds more like running away from reality than any drug use ever could be.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
You said the enlightened person experiences love for everything. Everything includes the pleasure and enjoyment of sex.

And does that mean an enlightened person sees child rape as just part of the universe's holism, and loves that too? Because to me, your enlightenment sounds more like running away from reality than any drug use ever could be.

To be more clear, the enlightened person is always experiencing love and joy. They have love for all living things. That does not mean loving everything that happens. You don't have to understand this if you don't want to.

Also, love and attachment are very different. If you are able to have and enjoy sex without attachment to it, without a dependency of it, then it isn't a hindrance in any way. The point is, that for most people, sex is a biological drive. We get horny because of our biology. This causes us to be very much occupied by thoughts of sex, and are motivated in many aspects of our lives by sex. We're controlled by this drive.

It is the control that is a feature of being Un-Realised, but having control is a feature of being Realised.

Does that make more sense?
 

jmvizanko

Uber Tool
To be more clear, the enlightened person is always experiencing love and joy. They have love for all living things. That does not mean loving everything that happens. You don't have to understand this if you don't want to.

Also, love and attachment are very different. If you are able to have and enjoy sex without attachment to it, without a dependency of it, then it isn't a hindrance in any way. The point is, that for most people, sex is a biological drive. We get horny because of our biology. This causes us to be very much occupied by thoughts of sex, and are motivated in many aspects of our lives by sex. We're controlled by this drive.

It is the control that is a feature of being Un-Realised, but having control is a feature of being Realised.

Does that make more sense?

So if the enlightened person is always experiencing love and joy, are they just deluding themselves about the existence of things like war and rape? I mean, if I were to go rape an enlightened person, would they just be giggling the while time?

And I guess I don't have a problem with my biology, and I see no need to supress it or overcome it.

I am not trying to not understand this, but clearly I don't.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
So if the enlightened person is always experiencing love and joy, are they just deluding themselves about the existence of things like war and rape? I mean, if I were to go rape an enlightened person, would they just be giggling the while time?

And I guess I don't have a problem with my biology, and I see no need to supress it or overcome it.

I am not trying to not understand this, but clearly I don't.

Are you perhaps approaching this with an antagonistic perspective? It really isn't anything to feel offended by, or threatened by.

Being Realised changes your entire perception of reality. You know how attitude affects one's behaviour and experiences. This is a simple way of explaining. Your attitude changes, because you see the world very differently to how you do right now.

I don't know how an enlightened person would react if they were raped. All I can say is that they would not feel hatred toward the person who did that to them. Maybe you are familiar with the Jesus story. When he was on the cross, he did not hate the people who put him there. Instead he asked God to forgive them, for they knew not what they did. I'm not a Christian, but this behaviour of Jesus is a great example of the attitude held by an enlightened person. They have love for everybody, because they understand that even those persons who commit the worse acts are acting in ignorance. We're all ignorant, to some extent. But that state of consciousness is only temporary. One day, even that individual will become enlightened.

With your last remark, I can see that you are not really approaching my explanations with an open mind, because you keep overlooking what I say. I have clearly stated that more than once that suppression of the human condition is not encourage, it is not the goal. I have already explained that some people mistakenly assume that they must suppress their natural instincts, and this results in unhealthy behaviour.

What I am saying, is that through spiritual practice, these features of the human condition fade away naturally. Do you see how this is unrelated to suppression?

Now, if you are someone who is very attached to the human condition, and has no wish to overcome the control that the temporary body has over your mind and behaviour, then you are free to continue as you are.

That is the beauty of my religion. It allows for real free will. Ie/ you're here because you have these desires and attachments, and you don't have to change. There is no hell for those who do not want to know God. You go where your consciousness takes you. So even if you did believe in the philosophy of the Vedas, there would be little pressure on your part to do anything other than what you want to do.

However, the idea is that eventually, after millions of lifetimes, the individual will get sick of the suffering that goes on in this material world, and strive for something greater. And so, the scriptures offer a solution.
 
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